Edge_Design

I used to ride a Pinarello... Great bike, absolutely shocking back-up service (when the 3 year old frame cracked). Don't know if that counts, but will never ride a Pinarello again in my life! BTW, Specialized is the best thing since sliced bread! Going to be very very sad to see the back of mine next week...

Mine arrived on Thursday last week! They must love us Saffers... Imagine how much money actually goes to CRC every month from here!

The ones I am amazed haven't popped up yet:- Yes the post office is charging you the correct duties on your new shoes/bibs/socks/lycra booties! And... Every NOOB MUST always start at least one thread asking what the duties payable on an order from CRC would be and must never, under any cirumstances, use the search function to find this out!

As a few ppl have said, it's a free market. If the price is too high then ppl won't buy it. I base the prices of everything I sell on sales I have seen before on the hub (if possible) as this is presumably the market price. In some cases, this means I make a big loss and in other cases it might even be higher than CRC's price for the new equivalent product. It's up to the buyer to research it and pay whatever they consider to be a fair price and thus are happy paying. As an example, there's a 2008 Manitou R7 fork for sale for basically the same price as CRC is currently selling the 2009 model for on their sale... it's up to the potential buyer to do their research and find out, why should the seller take a huge knock just because CRC has a sale on. Otherwise, wait until CRC sells out in a few weeks and then post the sale again.

My 2c... I really like the colour scheme (haven't seen many colours better than red/black/white for bikes yet), but I also agree about losing the 'Racing' as it sounds more like a team than a brand and I am also seriously against the website thing - the bike should be built and painted for your customer not to get you cheap advertising (if I spend R10k+ on a frame, it should not be a billboard for the brand, but rather something that just looks good for me to enjoy).

The pedals are insanely expensive now, but been using a set of Record Pro-fit pedals for 9 years now... The cleats last for years and cost very little (currently R120 on CRC) and never had the slightest problem with the pedals (they work like the day I got them still). I don't have much to compare them to obviously, but doubt there are many pedals which can beat them IMO for quality and durability.

Sorry to drag this thread out again, but did Andrew ever manage to shake his tree??? I can't believe he said that relating to his own little foray into the more exotic pricing strategies?! If it was relating to stolen bikes, I would be very interested to hear what happened! Wish I had the time to do a bit of digging in Cape Town myself as I have come across at least 2, possibly 3 people through the hub alone that I know for a fact deal in stolen bikes/parts.

Oh... he also thought that R3k was a fair price to pay for my bike (a year later and going to be advertising it soon for about R10k!)

Very much in operation still... unfortunately don't want to name him as the police chose not to pursue any charges against him, but if you find people selling used bikes commercially and don't see any adverts that they buy them too, then they are very likely dodgy. Especially when they sell cheaper used bikes with completely different spec. to new it is also a good indication that a bit of a chop shop may be operating - with at least 2 of the stolen bikes found, he had unfortunately only bought the frames, the rest of the more unrecognisable parts were all misteriously gone before the person brought the frame to him! And the person who stole my bike had coincidentally also stolen my pedals, loosened all the bolts for my brake calipers and cable tied my brakes hoses to the frame (???) (all in under 2 hours from when it was stolen till he bought it - he knew nothing about this obviously!). Seemed to me more like it was busy being stripped and then the hubber spotted the bike which was hastily reassembled before the police went to collect it (he also told me I couldn't fetch it that evening 'coz he was going out, but when I drove past his house at 8pm i could see people working on bikes in his garage!)... Oh well, if the police won't do anything then who can!

Unlike JHB where they head off to Moz, it seems like the thieves down here have a good relationship with a few used bike dealers in the Cape who strip them down, rebuild them with different parts (or get rid of the frame if it's easily identifiable) and sell them from their shops or on gumtree. My bike was stolen and within 2 hours had (apparently) been sold twice and was already being stripped by the second purchaser when a hubber saw it (I know it was being stripped because they never tightened my brake calipers and cable-tied my cables to the frame before returning it!). I know of 1 person/dealer who was caught with 4 stolen bikes last year alone (those were the ones traced to him by the police alone, I'm sure many others disappeared through the pages of gumtree!) and the police wouldn't prosecute him because they say he co-operated with them (even though he wasn't paying tax/VAT, was operating a business from residential property and was dealing in stolen goods!) I have also recently seen another hubbers stolen bike for sale on gumtree (tried to help him and the police recover it, but didn't seem to fit into their schedules!)... We have very simple thieves down here, not as sophisticated as you up-country folk.

If it is the alleged company that hides everything under alleged green blankets for some strange reason, you would be amazed of the lengths they will go to in order to decline claims. I've heard some incredible stories and dealt with their 'investigators' myself before... Irrespective of cost, they WILL prove you wrong. I'm sure this alleged pedal cycle would turn out to have been blown by the owner's negligence and, had the alleged person actually been performing the alleged illegal act, then this alleged claim would definitely be worthless.

A few of my meaningless thoughts on the interesting comments made... Why are SA employees any more important than CRC's employees (and they employ lots more ppl because of our support). This is a stupid, meaningless South African view on justifying bad business practice and should never be used in an educated debate. This whole debate on margins, profits etc with someone explaining why it is so difficult for bike shops: You have concluded that the average bike shop owner makes R8k per month profit, surely they would sell the shop and become a mechanic rather if this really was the case? If you honestly believe that k@k then, once again, you should not be involved in an educated debate. Furthermore, if they aren't making a reasonable profit then it means the supply is exceeding demand and a few shops should be failing and closing their doors to improve the industry as a whole. I completely agree it isn't the shops fault in all cases, the existence of a middle man is a major cause of the problem (and I guarantee they are not putting 7 - 8% mark-ups on their products!). On the whole issue of shipping, import duties, VAT etc., as someone who imports bike parts, I promise you they pay lower costs than you would to import from online shops around the world. There is no possible way that the cost to the local importers can be materially higher than those paid by European/American etc. importers. They will get slight quantity discounts, but that's about it. I also seriously don't care about distributors being able to sponsor riders and events, those are marketing costs which every company incurs, it is not about 'giving back to your customers'. If your product is doing exceptionally well, you possibly have even less incentive to spend on marketing. It's also great to say we should know the prices before going to a shop, but how do the 99% of cyclists whose only knowledge of bikes is what their LBS tells them know what a fair price is? How do you justify them getting nailed just because they didn't know they should have checked CRC before going to buy new tyres for their kids bikes? And to put it all in a real-life scenario which will be very difficult for these economists to explain:- I should hopefully be landing a product here next week which I am aiming to sell for R1100 (including what I consider a fair profit margin). I saw the exact same item in a shop on the weekend for R2500. Please can one of these pro-LBS economists explain that to me!? Retail price - R2,500 Mark-up - 50% (as claimed in the article) Cost - R1,650 (rounded) Distributors cost - <R1,100 Distributors mark-up - > 50% I don't know if it's the shops or the distributors, but it appears to be a lot more than the figures mentioned by the pro-LBS people either way.

I don't think the mark-ups are unreasonably high, but have a feeling the shops involved might not be paying the same as other, smaller shops giving them bigger margins than those claimed. I may be wrong, but it's a feeling I have from speaking to a few ppl and from seeing what the products actually cost from the manufacturers.

I have a feeling a lot of this has quietly been fixed already (bicycle prices appear to have dropped considerably in the last few months). This could be due to pressure from this investigation, poor economy (doubtful) or the fact that they shot themselves in the foot by pushing up prices as CRC became a major player in the SA market thus giving ppl even more incentive to spend their money abroad. It is a nice change to see names being published together with a detailed report after what appears to have been a proper investigation, very unlike SA! 10% of annual turnover is a lot more than a slap on the wrist though so I presume there was some serious money involved in this issue.

I see there is only storage for 50 messages in your inbox, will this be increased in the future?

The only place I can personally see this being relevant is in rating peoples buying/selling (maybe a feedback page can be included on each persons profile where people can leave comments - which should include their name and not be anonymous). Any anonymous feedback function will be abused by the minority which renders it meaningless for the majority as you can not trust the feedback given. I think a lot of users would really appreciate a feedback area to judge how much you can trust someone before entering into a transaction.

So, with my endeavours into the Edge brand, I have 2 new bikes on the way for myself. The first delivery arrived today, and the stork brought me the first part of my 2011 SRAM X0 groupset:- My SRAM Red has arrived (don't think we need photo's, but white hoods on the shifters. Unfortunately it has a BB30 crankset so that needs to go in favour of a more conventional one (couldn't decide which frame I wanted for myself, one was BB30 and one not and gone with the latter!). The road frame is here, ready and waiting:- Both bikes will be finished in full carbon Edge componentry with alu wheelsets (MTB - 1670g: road - 1260g) and a Sid World Cup for the MTB... *More pics will be posted in the upcoming weeks as more parts arrive and the builds progress!*

I agree about the cars, but the difference with bikes is that the components are fairly standard (which are the parts most likely to wear out and require replacement)... I know warranties are an issue, but you just have to hope the supplier is around for long enough for yours to run out. Just to clarify, I am obviously biased as I am slowly starting to import the Edge brand myself, but I know I personally will continue to honour warranties even if I stop selling the products (unless the manufacturer disappears, but they have been around for a while so shouldn't be an issue). Cars are not a good comparison due to the cost of spares, the number of spares required, and the specific knowledge required to work on each different brand of car.

What sort of cost are you looking at for the new LED?

My first order took 5 weeks to clear customs... I received it the day CRC was going to send a replacement order. Their service is incredible so don't stress about that, just unfortunate you have to wait so long.

Nojo King makes some very good points, I especially like the idea of bikes for the masses. I get really irritated when I see 'development' riders on carbon bikes with Zipps sponsored by PPA. It's great for them, but is it really the best use for the money? Are there any PPA members who prefer this over giving decent quality transport to 15 or 20 people for the same cost? I tried getting PPA to send me a copy of their financials a while back, but they completely ignored my request. I wanted to see what our money is being spent on before I comment too much. As a lot of the most keen cyclists are school children and students, how do you justify forcing these people to fund charity drives? The fees (annual and race entries) should be representative of what is being offered in return with an option of donating to charity if you want to. I earn a decent salary and still have to pick and choose my funrides because I can't justify paying the entry fees (if you want to promote cycling in general, then you also have to make it affordable for your members to do the rides - think how many more people would turn out if it was R50 to do the rides? They would get a similar income from the races due to increased numbers, but at the same time get a lot more people cycling more regularly). I can't afford to do the MTB races so can't comment on those...

Their service is non-existent so don't stress if you don't hear back for a few days (took them 2 months to sort out a warranty replacement for a brand new derailleur that arrived damaged with a groupset because their workshop was too busy to look at it!)... Not sure about the tracking though, would think they should have e-mailed that to you.

Looked at a few reviews online and doesn't look like they're really suitable for use as a 'headlight', seem to be more to keep you visible with a small bit of additional light. The X8 looks like it might be a better option, but it also doesn't seem to be as bright as the Magicshine. Hoping someone who has used them will read this and can give some feedback. I'm just concerned with how long the Magicshine will last as it is still a lot of money to blow on a light and haven't seen too much info on their durability... Not saying they won't last, just feels safer going with the name brand (ah, the love of marketing!)

Bought more than I can remember (built 2 bikes so far from parts off the hub and seriously upgraded my other bike). Probably sold at least as much, if not quite a bit more though... Never had a terribly bad transaction (must be at least 30+ purchases/sales so far). Lots of ppl promise to buy something and then cancel, but that's more of an irritation than anything. The hub also introduced me to CRC and Total Cycling and I would hate to work out what I've spent there! Almost time to sell off 4 high-end bikes and then (hopefully) I will be pushing the record on hub sales!