Rugby...

[MTBeer]

How come the top Super rugby team in NZ is full of all blacks but in SA the standout best team has players that don't get to start for the Springboks. Instead the Springbok team is full of players that managed a draw against the Sunwolves. 

agreed sort of. But that average Stormers team has been the most consistent SA team over the last couple of years. Doesn't say much for the quality of SA rugby does it?

[MTBeer]

and even when the Bulls were klapping the Super 15 a few years back, the Boks were still average.

[Frosty]

How come the top Super rugby team in NZ is full of all blacks but in SA the standout best team has players that don't get to start for the Springboks. Instead the Springbok team is full of players that managed a draw against the Sunwolves.

The setup in NZ is all centred around the AB. No other nation comes close to their setup.

 

Each province/franchise will play a style of rugby the way the AB coach wants them to play. If a player from the Blues is injured another player from any other franchise can slot into the position with very little disruption to the team.

[leeubok]

agreed sort of. But that average Stormers team has been the most consistent SA team over the last couple of years. Doesn't say much for the quality of SA rugby does it?

 

Consistently crap yes. Now we have a Lions team playing a wonderful brand of rugby that even has NZ scribes singing their praizes, AND they're winning games! The Lions are 2nd overall on the combined log. Yes it is still early days and they haven't won anything yet, but they have been the best team in SA for the last 2 seasons. They had a good super season last year, and only just missed out on the playoffs. I blame Howard Mnisis for knocking the ball on as he went over the tryline against the Stormers, which would have won them the game and probably get them into the playoffs. Thats how close it was.

 

Then comes the CC and they go unbeaten and win it. And they continue that trend by winning all their games against SA opposition (so far) in super rugby this year.  

 

So what does AC do? He puts only 2 Lions players in his starting 15. With another 3 warming the bench, hoping for a few minutes of gametime at the end. With the best flank and best wing in SA not even in the match 23. 

 

If we don't pick the best team avilable, purely on merit, we will forever be chasing the AB's. 

['Dale]

The setup in NZ is all centred around the AB. No other nation comes close to their setup.

 

Each province/franchise will play a style of rugby the way the AB coach wants them to play. If a player from the Blues is injured another player from any other franchise can slot into the position with very little disruption to the team.

This ^^^

['Dale]

Rugby365 forecast:

 

Prediction: The Springboks will win the singing. After all they all sing, while Ireland's captain chews gum. But the match will matter more than the singing and we stick out a long neck and say the Springboks will win by 15 points or more.

[Bloukrans]

Rugby365 forecast:

 

Prediction: The Springboks will win the singing. After all they all sing, while Ireland's captain chews gum. But the match will matter more than the singing and we stick out a long neck and say the Springboks will win by 15 points or more.

Boks to take it.

 

I'm so disappointed - the ANC Youth League cancelled their protest action.

 

 

Now I must leave my sjambok at home

['Dale]

Boks to take it.

 

I'm so disappointed - the ANC Youth League cancelled their protest action.

 

 

Now I must leave my sjambok at home

Yikes

I think you're stuck in the 70s or 80s hey

 

Rather focus on the rugby chat here, man

Edited June 10, 2016 by Puncheur

[Escapee..]

I am going to give the coach and the new team the benefit of the doubt and back them 100%.

 

Looking forwards to a new brand of Rugby and not the old boring "stampkar" rugby we have been seeing.

 

I just hope that they dont fall back to the old style when things dont go our way from the start as it will take some time for everyone to settle.

 

 

We are definitely not only on par with NZ at number 4&5

 

Tight 5 are very close to them and so are 6,7 & 8.

 

Faf at 9 is playing good rugby at the moment and is very close to if not on par with Aaron Smith. (Have a look at how they both approach a ruck, both coming from directly behind giving them the options to play left or right at the same speed)

 

Backline I agree we might be slightly behind with skills but luckily test match rugby is a lot tighter than Super Rugby

 

GO Bokke!

Edited June 10, 2016 by Escapee..

[Mntboy]

 

 

"At the moment"? I assume you've been watching him a lot playing in the European leagues? Otherwise how would you know that he is our best? I base my opinion of WW on the fact that he has been the best 8 IN SA for the last 2 seasons. He's a different type of 8 though, more of a link and attacking space type of player rather than bashing it up with brute force like Duane. I know which one I'd prefer... And that's why I'd rather have WW at 8 and Duane at 7. But hey, I'm not the bok coach...

 

This is still a good team and should beat Ireland comfortably. It's not our BEST team though.

Fortunately for us watching the overseas based players is the coach's responsibility. However you might want to look at DV's track record over the past 8 years. Consistently in the top 3 in his position. Asof 09 the no 1 no 8 in SA. Has won the CC TWICE once each with Free State and WP. During his time at the Stormers they were a consistent play off contender even reaching the final in 2010. This trend continues at Toulon where they reached the Semi Finals of the Top 14 where they had a 66.6% win/loss record 10 wins from 15 matches DV has played for them. DV's record at international level is impeccable. He has been the standout Bok in the last WC cycle. He has a win/loss record of 71.42% i.e. 25 wins out of 35 matches which rises if you exclude the matches against NZld to 24 out of 28. All this doesn't take his actual playing ability into account, at least not directly, but you don't rack up such achievements without having BMT and serious talent. Whiteley is the same age, almost, and his pedigree is nowhere near as storied. He has been incredibly good over the past two seasons hence his regular appearance in Bok squads but he is still no 2 in the no 8 pecking order. WW is a very very fine player but at international level might not entirely be suited to no 8 but be better off at no 7 where his linkage play would be to our advantage. Also I am worried that his defense is not as good as it needs to be at international level, and we both know that international matches are far tighter than SR matches, however he does get through a lot and that will compensate to a degree. The big bonus of having both DV AND WW in the same team would be a better supply of ball to backs in addition to the outstanding defensive co-ordination (both are outstanding at this as their teams records at domestic level proves) they would provide.

 

As you said the Boks should win this test easily but it's not the best team for sure.

 

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[leeubok]

Mntboy, sorry but I'm going to disagree with you on that one. Yes duane has done well in the PAST. And he is still a damn good player, hence I would play him at 7. Ww has had no chance to prove himself at international level (thanks heyneke). He is a much more skilled player than duane, and a lot more physical than people give him credit for. His defence not so good? Bud, he had close to a 100% tackle success rate in super rugby last year, and this year probably isn't too far off either.

 

Anyways, everyone will have different opinions and favourite players...

[Mntboy]

 

 

Mntboy, sorry but I'm going to disagree with you on that one. Yes duane has done well in the PAST. And he is still a damn good player, hence I would play him at 7. Ww has had no chance to prove himself at international level (thanks heyneke). He is a much more skilled player than duane, and a lot more physical than people give him credit for. His defence not so good? Bud, he had close to a 100% tackle success rate in super rugby last year, and this year probably isn't too far off either.

 

Anyways, everyone will have different opinions and favourite players...

I agree that we need to agree to disagree. However you refer to DV being the past without making a proper argument for it backed by numbers and/or facts. AC would NOT have selected both if he felt that one (DV) was past his best. In fact his selection choices concerning them gives a hint of what to expect this afternoon. Pragmatism allied to attacking flair. Think Jake White but with (hopefully) greater attacking intent. How else does one explain the selected backline and the bench?

 

WW is a very very good SR player whose SR record has earned him a very deserved spot in the national team. As you have acknowledged he is yet to prove himself at that level regardless of Heyneke Meyer. Sadly though it seems that you've built a messiah complex around WW and the effect that WW has had on the Lions (he saved them he'll save the Boks) along with Ackerman. Nothing wrong with applauding their achievements to date (it has been good to see and been highly enjoyable and deserves applause) but please don't ask me to accept a false view of an exceptionally brilliant player for one who, though talented, has yet to prove he can work in a system outside of that of the Lions i.e. is he as adaptable as he needs to be. Once again WW is a very fine player and I am glad he is a part of the Bok set up. He adds depth where currently we are quite lacking imho.

 

And for clarity, I am a fan of both DV and WW they are incredible men and brilliant to watch on the field of play and I genuinely hope both can be accommodated in the starting XV asap as it would imho benefit the Boks greatly. And that I think is the one thing we both agree on.

 

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[leeubok]

I do not have a messiah complex over WW. I merely think him at 8 with duane at 7 and kriel at 6 would make a potent combination. I don't have the time (or will) to go look up stats to prove my point that he is a good player. All I want is for him and others that deserve it to get a decent chance to prove themselves at international level. Let's see what AC and his "new" team can do this afternoon

['Dale]

Awesome play by Wales

 

All Blacks always vulnerable in that first game of the international season - rusty

 

Key opportunities missed by the visitors

 

Hope they can build on it.

['Dale]

Fascinating contest between the Wallabies and the visiting English

 

Early dominance by the visitors

Bold fight back by Wallabies

And final surge by the visitors

 

Beers will flow tonight

 

Wallabies need to fight back hard now after this home loss

 

Eng 1 - Aus 0 (3 test series

[Mntboy]

I do not have a messiah complex over WW. I merely think him at 8 with duane at 7 and kriel at 6 would make a potent combination. I don't have the time (or will) to go look up stats to prove my point that he is a good player. All I want is for him and others that deserve it to get a decent chance to prove themselves at international level. Let's see what AC and his "new" team can do this afternoon

I hear you and I agree ito having both DV and WW in the starting XV I disagree on where but that is largely an academic debate. Hopefully AC and his coaching staff will have it at some point. Enjoy the game Leeubok!

 

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