Prof Tim Noakes' U-turn on Carbohydrates

[nonky]

i think Nonky is just playing the man here, in which case, a separate thread is needed because this is muddying the water for everyone actually interested in LCHF eating regimes.

 

Nope, I just do not trust "scientists" that do not do their own research.

No tests conducted.

No proper trial.

No scientific results.

No peer review.

No first hand inspection / analysis of the subjects.

Just a bunch of anecdotal evidence given some legitimacy by being published in a journal.

 

Followed by a huge song and dance marketing campaign in order to - GUESS WHAT? - punt his new book.

 

I smell a rat...

[Epic Rookie]

Nope, I just do not trust "scientists" that do not do their own research.

No tests conducted.

No proper trial.

No scientific results.

No peer review.

No first hand inspection / analysis of the subjects.

Just a bunch of anecdotal evidence given some legitimacy by being published in a journal.

 

Followed by a huge song and dance marketing campaign in order to - GUESS WHAT? - punt his new book.

 

I smell a rat...

 

So what are these peer reviewed studies looking at?

http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/

[nonky]

So what are these peer reviewed studies looking at?

http://authoritynutr...-low-fat-diets/

 

Where are NOAKES' peer-reviewed studies?

 

There aren't ANY, as admitted by Noakes himself.

 

But that does not stop him writing and punting a book, does it?

[nonky]

So what are these peer reviewed studies looking at?

http://authoritynutr...-low-fat-diets/

 

Noakes has also advised persons WHOM HE HAS NEVER MET to go off their diabetic and other medicine - in contravention of the advice of their own doctors/specialists.

 

BTW, Noakes is NOT A DOCTOR.

 

A letter from some serious academics and specialists was published in the Cape Times where they warned that Noakes' diet could be harmful and was not a cure-all, as advocated by Noakes.

 

All I am trying to do is WARN people about taking Noakes' claims without a healthy dose of skepticism. His book/advice is as bad/good as the Paleo Diet, South Beach Diet, Atkins, Blood Type Diet etc.

[jcza]

Noakes has also advised persons WHOM HE HAS NEVER MET to go off their diabetic and other medicine - in contravention of the advice of their own doctors/specialists.

 

BTW, Noakes is NOT A DOCTOR.

 

A letter from some serious academics and specialists was published in the Cape Times where they warned that Noakes' diet could be harmful and was not a cure-all, as advocated by Noakes.

 

All I am trying to do is WARN people about taking Noakes' claims without a healthy dose of skepticism. His book/advice is as bad/good as the Paleo Diet, South Beach Diet, Atkins, Blood Type Diet etc.

 

Not a doctor? Are you sure of that?

[nonky]

Not a doctor? Are you sure of that?

 

Professor of Physiology, NOT a medical doctor.

 

That's why he's "Professor Noakes", not "Doctor Noakes".

[jcza]

Professor of Physiology, NOT a medical doctor.

 

That's why he's "Professor Noakes", not "Doctor Noakes".

 

Rather stop now

• MBChB: 1974 – University of Cape Town
  
• MD: 1981 – Thesis title – “Exercise and the Heart”
  
• DSc: 2002 – Doctor of Science in Medicine degree in Exercise Science (UCT)
  
• PhD (h.c.): Vrije University, Amsterdam, Netherlands
  
• FACSM: Fellow of the American College of Sports Medicine
  
• (hon) FFSEM (UK): Honorary Fellowship of the Faculty of Sport and Exercise Medicine (UK)
  

[Capricorn]

Rather stop now

• MBChB: 1974 – University of Cape Town
  
• MD: 1981 – Thesis title – “Exercise and the Heart”
  
• DSc: 2002 – Doctor of Science in Medicine degree in Exercise Science (UCT)
  
• PhD (h.c.): Vrije University, Amsterdam, Netherlands
  
• FACSM: Fellow of the American College of Sports Medicine
  
• (hon) FFSEM (UK): Honorary Fellowship of the Faculty of Sport and Exercise Medicine (UK)
  

 

i hope you didnt bite down there Nonky: high risk of hurting your ankle

[Dirt De Vil]

Noakes has also advised persons WHOM HE HAS NEVER MET to go off their diabetic and other medicine - in contravention of the advice of their own doctors/specialists.

 

BTW, Noakes is NOT A DOCTOR.

 

A letter from some serious academics and specialists was published in the Cape Times where they warned that Noakes' diet could be harmful and was not a cure-all, as advocated by Noakes.

 

All I am trying to do is WARN people about taking Noakes' claims without a healthy dose of skepticism. His book/advice is as bad/good as the Paleo Diet, South Beach Diet, Atkins, Blood Type Diet etc.

 

In which book, paper, article by Noakes has he claimed that it is a cure-all diet?

[nonky]

Rather stop now

• MBChB: 1974 – University of Cape Town
  
• MD: 1981 – Thesis title – “Exercise and the Heart”
  
• DSc: 2002 – Doctor of Science in Medicine degree in Exercise Science (UCT)
  
• PhD (h.c.): Vrije University, Amsterdam, Netherlands
  
• FACSM: Fellow of the American College of Sports Medicine
  
• (hon) FFSEM (UK): Honorary Fellowship of the Faculty of Sport and Exercise Medicine (UK)
  

 

OK, I was WRONG on that one.

[nonky]

i hope you didnt bite down there Nonky: high risk of hurting your ankle

 

Nah, just put a bullet hole in my foot...**** happens

[nonky]

In which book, paper, article by Noakes has he claimed that it is a cure-all diet?

 

The letter stated that

 

FULL TEXT OF THE LETTER (Cape Times, September 14, 2012)

In his book Challenging Beliefs, Professor Tim Noakes takes issue with and contradicts many aspects of conventional wisdom and accepted medical practice. Some of what he says may well be true and his views on the contribution of refined carbohydrates to the obesity epidemic are almost certainly correct.

However we believe he goes too far in suggesting that a switch to a high-fat, high-protein diet is advisable for all persons. Such a diet may have allowed him to lose weight and run faster but its widespread implementation is contrary to the recommendations of all major cardiovascular societies worldwide, is of unproven benefit and may be dangerous for patients with coronary heart disease or persons at risk of coronary heart disease.

Further his questioning of the value of cholesterol lowering agents (statins) is at best unwise and may be harmful to many patients on appropriate treatment. The very strong evidence is that statins in patients with coronary artery disease improve mortality (they make you live longer). Multiple placebo-controlled studies have confirmed this.

Generic statins are now cheap and should be widely used. The side-effect profile of these agents is benign and there is general agreement that their benefits far outweigh any minor risks associated with their use.

Noakes is welcome to his views. As an academic it would be appropriate for him to air these and to debate them in an academic forum and the medical literature where they could be critically evaluated and challenged by his peers.

To present these controversial opinions as fact to a lay public, in his un-refereed book, is dangerous and potentially very harmful to good patient care.

We understand some patients are placing their health at risk by discontinuing statin therapy and their prudent diets on the basis of this “expert opinion”. Having survived “Aids Denialism” we do not need to be exposed to “Cholesterol Denialism”.

Scientists and clinicians have an ethical obligation to ensure that the information they impart to their patients and the public at large is correct, in line with best available evidence, and will not cause harm.

Patrick Commerford

MB ChB FCP(SA) FACC (Professor of Cardiology and Head Cardiac Clinic UCT and Groote Schuur Hospital)

Dr Miko Ntsekhe

MD PhD FCP(SA) FACC (Cardiac Clinic UCT and Groote Schuur Hospital)

Dr Dirk Blom FCP(SA)

PhD Lipid Clinic Department of Medicine UCT and Groote Schuur Hospital

Professor A D Marais FCP(SA)

Chemical Pathology, Clinical Laboratory Services, UCT Health Science Faculty

Dr Elwyn Lloyd MD FCP(SA)

FACC Cardiologist

Dr Adrian Horak FCP(SA)

Cardiologist

[arendoog]

 

OK, I was WRONG on that one.

Yes and plenty so!

[nonky]

Yes and plenty so!

 

I should've checked, I know, but I was told that he was not an MD by a senior medical professional in cape town...my bad.

 

Notwithstanding that HUGE error, I stand by the rest of my comments.

[Capricorn]

The letter stated that

 

FULL TEXT OF THE LETTER (Cape Times, September 14, 2012)

In his book Challenging Beliefs, Professor Tim Noakes takes issue with and contradicts many aspects of conventional wisdom and accepted medical practice. Some of what he says may well be true and his views on the contribution of refined carbohydrates to the obesity epidemic are almost certainly correct.

However we believe he goes too far in suggesting that a switch to a high-fat, high-protein diet is advisable for all persons. Such a diet may have allowed him to lose weight and run faster but its widespread implementation is contrary to the recommendations of all major cardiovascular societies worldwide, is of unproven benefit and may be dangerous for patients with coronary heart disease or persons at risk of coronary heart disease.

Further his questioning of the value of cholesterol lowering agents (statins) is at best unwise and may be harmful to many patients on appropriate treatment. The very strong evidence is that statins in patients with coronary artery disease improve mortality (they make you live longer). Multiple placebo-controlled studies have confirmed this.

Generic statins are now cheap and should be widely used. The side-effect profile of these agents is benign and there is general agreement that their benefits far outweigh any minor risks associated with their use.

Noakes is welcome to his views. As an academic it would be appropriate for him to air these and to debate them in an academic forum and the medical literature where they could be critically evaluated and challenged by his peers.

To present these controversial opinions as fact to a lay public, in his un-refereed book, is dangerous and potentially very harmful to good patient care.

We understand some patients are placing their health at risk by discontinuing statin therapy and their prudent diets on the basis of this “expert opinion”. Having survived “Aids Denialism” we do not need to be exposed to “Cholesterol Denialism”.

Scientists and clinicians have an ethical obligation to ensure that the information they impart to their patients and the public at large is correct, in line with best available evidence, and will not cause harm.

Patrick Commerford

MB ChB FCP(SA) FACC (Professor of Cardiology and Head Cardiac Clinic UCT and Groote Schuur Hospital)

Dr Miko Ntsekhe

MD PhD FCP(SA) FACC (Cardiac Clinic UCT and Groote Schuur Hospital)

Dr Dirk Blom FCP(SA)

PhD Lipid Clinic Department of Medicine UCT and Groote Schuur Hospital

Professor A D Marais FCP(SA)

Chemical Pathology, Clinical Laboratory Services, UCT Health Science Faculty

Dr Elwyn Lloyd MD FCP(SA)

FACC Cardiologist

Dr Adrian Horak FCP(SA)

Cardiologist

 

You are not answering the question: show where NOAKES said what you claim he is saying. Showing us what other ppl said he said is no different from you saying he said: quote Noakes. Only that will suffice. Surely can't be that hard considering just how hard you going at this.

[Capricorn]

I should've checked, I know, but I was told that he was not an MD by a senior medical professional in cape town...my bad.

 

Notwithstanding that HUGE error, I stand by the rest of my comments.

 

 

see my previous comment. Your confession above taken in conjunction with your quoting of an article that does NOT quote Noakes directly, indicates you are susceptible to being easily mislead by ppl you believe should know better, and that you are not given to verifying anything before expressing a claim posing as 'hard fact'.

 

This is not doing your credibility one iota of any good. If you had a good argument against Noakes, and/or Noake's assertions, its getting buried under the stink of misinformation and gullibility.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Capricorn