Lance Armstrong Banned and Stripped of TDF Titles

[fandacious]

I am rooting for Froome

Contador did impress me in the last tour he rode the day he attacked the Schlecks the way he did, it showed some class.

 

now theres the perfect definition of "fly by night". they were both so full of promise, and yet nothing ever materialised

[Zook]

Haters are always gonna be haters.

 

Man, if there's one thing I hate, it's that sentence. It's an easy way to stop debate by making it all out to be the critical side's state of mind.

 

I've been a Lance fanboy for years, and I'm a critic of how he's handling it. I'm sad for the guys who maybe could have won, but didn't dope. I'm sad for the guys who have doped because that's what you had to do to compete. Get it out in the air, if we have to lose Lance to clear it up, he'll be fine, but the next generation of sportspeople need to have a good reason not to dope. Slaps on the wrist just encourage doping.

 

So: hater or fanboy? Both. Argue the facts, not the person.

[Wyatt Earp]

Man, if there's one thing I hate, it's that sentence.

 

As do I, but it's getting used so much I might as well apply it to myself.

['Dale]

Hopefully, when this storm blows over, things will become better.

 

The biological passport is a sure improvement on regulating 'cleaner' racing.

Edited August 28, 2012 by puncheur

[philip.maree]

I am rooting for Froome

Contador did impress me in the last tour he rode the day he attacked the Schlecks the way he did, it showed some class.

I am also rooting for Froome.

 

But one has to admit, with Contador back in the mix the racing is just more exciting.

 

Don't know if it has been mentioned somewhere in this thread but I like the "truth and reconciliation" suggestion as per this article. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pound-calls-for-truth-and-reconciliation-for-cycling. I think that is probably the best way to determine what happened in the past.

[Tubehunter]

Hardly valid, and clearly not objective. Stratton is a PR whore climbing on the Lance band wagon. And to lay the blame at the feet of cycling fans infuriates me. He seems to forget that the cycle fans are the people that buy his bicycles and make this the fantastic sport that it is.

 

I prefer the riposte by @Kiss_my_Panache over at Cyclismas: http://www.cyclismas...ance-armstrong/

 

Certainly makes for interesting reading Velouria! Everyone will have an opinion in this whole matter to match their own agenda. I respect what LA achieved on a bicycle at a time when EVERYONE was on the juice. Not a fanboy though.

 

More concerned that cycling wont be the same after this whole affair has run its course. Can only hope that it will come through the ashes and recover. Can't see UCI in its current form making it through this. Undecided whether this is good or bad yet. Not sure I like the precedent of doping agencies able to look beyond doping test results for convictions. This type of thing needs to be definitive not a possibility thing. I'd prefer to see no limit on the sanction time so that future tests can retroactively test samples and have this written into the code of rules cyclists agree to, whilst they focus on getting the tests around the blood passport program up to scratch as the prime deterant to would be dopers moving forward. That would clean up the sport without first tarnishing it in the media frenzy eyes of the world.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Tubehunter

[Guest Omega Man]

I'm sure it's been said a dozen times before on this thread but there are other and in my opinion more effective ways to clean the sport up.

 

Right now WADA and USADA etc seem to be targeting the athletes when they should be targeting the supply chain and the team managers and doctors etc. That's like police only targeting drug users.

 

A number of years ago when Ben Johnson got nabbed for steroid use I saw an interview with Carl Lewis about it and he said at that point that there were certain coaches that were known for that sort of thing and that most of the athletes training under that certain coach would be users. Yes I know it's ironic but the principle stands. How many of you associate yourselves with known drug dealers?

 

When it comes to supply chain surely there MUST be some sort of paper trail. Invoices, payment records, delivery notes. The stuff doesn't just materialize in an athlete's hotel room.

 

I guess it's far more glamorous to bring down LA, Berto, Schleck rather than some nobody who sold the stuff to the teams.

 

Just a thought. Personally I'm saddened by the whole thing.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Omega Man

[eddy]

 

 

Right now WADA and USADA etc seem to be targeting the athletes when they should be targeting the supply chain and the team managers and doctors etc. That's like police only targeting drug users.

 

When it comes to supply chain surely there MUST be some sort of paper trail. Invoices, payment records, delivery notes. The stuff doesn't just materialize in an athlete's hotel room.

 

I guess it's far more glamorous to bring down LA, Berto, Schleck rather than some nobody who sold the stuff to the teams.

 

What you are arguing for is exactly the approach the USADA has taken.

 

It has not ONLY charged LA, but the doctors, the soigneurs and the team management who prescribed, administered and procured the drugs. It has also charged LA with his role in the doping culture within the team.

 

.

[Wyatt Earp]

Hopefully, when this storm blows over, things will become better.

 

The biological passport is a sure improvement on regulating 'cleaner' racing.

 

It's been dirty from inception and will be dirty long after I am lying in my coffin.

I doubt we will see this or any other sport as totally clean, ever.

 

The pressure to perform, break new world records, gets bums in stadiums, get millions of T.V. viewers, we will never be fortunate enough to see total cleanliness.

 

Not as long as there is pressure to make money.

 

Nike, Adidas, Oakley ......... and the list is endless are all under pressure to drive their media campaigns around winners.

[Tubehunter]

What you are arguing for is exactly the approach the USADA has taken.

 

It has not ONLY charged LA, but the doctors, the soigneurs and the team management who prescribed, administered and procured the drugs. It has also charged LA with his role in the doping culture within the team.

 

.

 

What you are saying is certainly not the situation that is playing itself out in the media even though the charges indicate they are chasing the supply chain.

[Tumbleweed]

What you are saying is certainly not the situation that is playing itself out in the media even though the charges indicate they are chasing the supply chain.

 

I don't see what you're getting at here. What's playing itself out in the media is the refusal of Lance to submit himself to arbitration over charges that include both his role in a doping ring as well as irregular blood values.

[Lucky Luke.]

 

Right now WADA and USADA etc seem to be targeting the athletes when they should be targeting the supply chain and the team managers and doctors etc. That's like police only targeting drug users.

 

Lance had the opportunity to go to arbitration and tell us all about the supply chain. It's clear he has no interest in doing that.

 

I'm also not convinced by the analogy of dope dealer / junkie. These are medical drugs in 99% of the cases, produced by pharmaceutical companies, with limited distribution channels, and requiring expert medical knowledge in order to properly administer them, whilst still escaping detection.

 

The drugs originated on the scene because of certain doping doctors, and two of these doctors - by and large the worst offenders that we know about - Ferrari, del Moral, have been given lifetime bans.

 

The place to combat the problem is at the top level of the sport. The example is set, methods of evasion learned, new doping techniques popularised, blind eyes turned, all at the highest level where the most money is to be made, by athletes and organising bodies.

 

 

Just a thought. Personally I'm saddened by the whole thing.

 

If you've any interest in clean cycling how could you be anything but relieved or pleased by what is happening?

Edited August 28, 2012 by Lucky Luke.

[eddy]

What you are saying is certainly not the situation that is playing itself out in the media even though the charges indicate they are chasing the supply chain.

 

Yes, but the popular media has been fed by the LA PR machine that has categorised this as an #unconstitutional #witchhunt and turned it into a personal vendetta and attack from TravisTygart on the most tested athlete of all times.

 

Balanced articles like those published by Dr Ross Tucker are only now playing catch-up.

[scotty]

I am also rooting for Froome. But one has to admit, with Contador back in the mix the racing is just more exciting. Don't know if it has been mentioned somewhere in this thread but I like the "truth and reconciliation" suggestion as per this article. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pound-calls-for-truth-and-reconciliation-for-cycling. I think that is probably the best way to determine what happened in the past.

In this tour Contador has not done much exciting from my view, wheel sucked with the occasional feeble break which has the commentator all exited but proves nought. Compare this to Froome who has been far more aggressive.

[philip.maree]

In this tour Contador has not done much exciting from my view, wheel sucked with the occasional feeble break which has the commentator all exited but proves nought. Compare this to Froome who has been far more aggressive.

It's not necessarily his racing that makes it exciting, but I think his presence has an effect on the race. Just that alone makes the racing exciting because he is somewhat of an unknown quantity. You can see on Rodriguez and Froome's faces that they are waiting for him to make a move.

 

On another note: Hopefully Froome wil not fade in week 3 and doesn't only look at the TT for gains. Rodriguez, Valverde and Contador have made him look a bit vulnerable in the mountain stages thus far. Hopefully week 2 and 3 he will deliver. I feel sorry for Froome though, with all the hype that he is the strongest rider at Sky although he had to play lieutenant, he has been setup to look like an idiot if he doesn't win the overall at the Vuelta.

[Guest Omega Man]

If you've any interest in clean cycling how could you be anything but relieved or pleased by what is happening?

I'm saddened because it's tarnished the reputation of cycling further.

 

Am I happy that someone who many thousands have looked to as an inspiration has been humiliated and had his reputation dragged through the mud? No.

 

Am I happy that 3 riders that I admire have been in the media about doping this year? No.

 

Do I believe that this will have any real effect in cleaning up cycling? No

 

Do I believe that LA doped? Hell yes.

 

Do I believe that they all doped? Yes.

 

Do I believe that they all currently dope? Sadly yes.

 

Do I believe that cycling will ever be clean? No. As long as money is involved. No chance.

 

I don't find it funny when the inbreeders beat the sh*t out of each other on the Jerry Springer show either tho. I find the humiliation of others through TV cameras a sad indictment on humanity in general.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Omega Man