Vanstone Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 We are yet to see scientific evidence on the matter. At the moment it is all circumstantial evidence from ex-dopers trying to make everyone look bad so that they are not standing alone. I wonder where Greg le Mond, who is probably the biggest LA hater, fits into the whole scenario?
(Deon) Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 My opinion? Well, I've just had an hour long question and answer session with my 11 year old son, who is a keen cyclist, about Lance Armstrong, cheating in sport, doping and drugs . It was difficult stuff to explain, and I am sorry that he is now a bit disillusioned, but hopefully some good will come out of all this mess, even if just in our little world. The long and the short of it, I tried to explain, is that you will be caught sooner or later and will have to suffer the consequences, just like Lance. That is humiliating and it will happen in public for all to see. If you are not caught, then it will catch up with you and kill you, like Pantani, and everyone will know. Even if you survive, you will have to live with yourself and it is terrible to live with a lying cheating person for the rest of your life. (He then asked me about the Vit B Co injection that I had the other day........and about energy drinks.......more explaining ) His conclusion is that he is disappointed and sad that Lance cheated but he still think he was a very good cyclist and that he did a lot of good things for people with cancer. I decided to leave it at that, because that is kind of how I feel as well. This is so pertinent in the debate raging around USN's product for children. WHO in their right mind would put kids on that path, especially after this whole scandal. It is hard enough to understand the world as it is, but to a kid, a HERO/LEGEND to be found a CHEAT??!! It would be interesting to hear Lance's first conversation with whomever introduced him to doping, even doping in the slightest form. I don't have anything against USN but exploitation, certainly! For a child to become dependent on the belief that the energy supplement helped him win is just crazy.. They should have a chance at doing it themselves first surely?? - oops, rant off.
E1A104 Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 My goodness. At this rate all that will be left to him will be third place in the sack race when he was in grade 2 and he probably cheated to win that as well!
JGR Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 This is so pertinent in the debate raging around USN's product for children. WHO in their right mind would put kids on that path, especially after this whole scandal. It is hard enough to understand the world as it is, but to a kid, a HERO/LEGEND to be found a CHEAT??!! It would be interesting to hear Lance's first conversation with whomever introduced him to doping, even doping in the slightest form. I don't have anything against USN but exploitation, certainly! For a child to become dependent on the belief that the energy supplement helped him win is just crazy.. They should have a chance at doing it themselves first surely?? - oops, rant off.My younger brother played craven week rugga and he has told me a lot of the rugby (and waterpolo) guys who start using windrol and other steriods in like std 8 or 9 - USN el at might supply the goods but maybe we should underpin the the reason why people/children turn this way in the first place.
(Deon) Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) My younger brother played craven week rugga and he has told me a lot of the rugby (and waterpolo) guys who start using windrol and other steriods in like std 8 or 9 - USN el at might supply the goods but maybe we should underpin the the reason why people/children turn this way in the first place. You're right, USN and the like are just playing the market. Fact is it exists, if it didn't there would be no 'data' to support the sales projections. Parents, or winners like Lance? Edited October 23, 2012 by Pain or Shine
Iwan Kemp Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 Armstrong speech at Livestrong event http://pinterest.com/pin/79446380898029057/
Coiser Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Very sad that Lance did what he did. I have always maintained that you cannot cycle average 200km a day for 23 days at a 43ave and only use your day to day performance products. You certainly need much "stronger? products to get you to the finish. The majority is using "banned" products. It is the way you use these substances that will determine if you get caught or not. The way that Mr Armstrong administered his dope was brilliant but at the end of the day it catches up with you. Sad day for cycling. Its not all about me or the bike but the dope............................ Edited October 23, 2012 by Coiser
scotty Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) I'm waiting for "Dubya" Bush to disown him, 2 seemed pretty close at one time. There was also mention at one time of LA entering politics, mmm Edited October 23, 2012 by scotty
Whatsup! Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 I think that if Lance has to pay back his prize money and sponsor bonuses, then they should pay him back for all the money they made off his name. Just a thought.
SwissVan Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 Try fraud actually. Besides the glory of the titles, each win scored him lots of cash. This was 'earned' through dishonesty and cheating. To some extent yes....but like it or not it took more than just fraud to win those titles.The term FRAUD can be applied to every single person who ever cheated and won something no matter how big or small the prize. In the case of LA and his sponsors (ex) I have my doubts if they will try and reclaim monies paid to him, it wont be worth the effort and exposure they will get. After all they cannot claim that they did not know or suspect anything (there have been plenty of allegations over the years, smoke -> fire) and I would suspect that LA had some clever terms written into his contracts to make it difficult for sponsors to make claims against him under the present circumstances (no + test / physical evidence OR no admission of guilt....)
Wet Ears Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 Pretty much the reason I don't watch road cycling - bunch of druggies.
SwissVan Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 Pretty much the reason I don't watch road cycling - bunch of druggies. Now you dunnit....
JGR Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 You're right, USN and the like are just playing the market. Fact is it exists, if it didn't there would be no 'data' to support the sales projections. Parents, or winners like Lance?Hard to say - I think peer pressure has its part to play. The only way some of the younger guys can get the (hard) stuff is collectively ...much like buying alcohol underage - 4 x 16 years old save the weeks lunch money can buy a bottle of vodka. But I disagree with mainstream supplments targeted at kids (except vitamis and the like) which are stil lmarketed to the parents and not directly to the kids
JA-Q001 Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 People should stop looking at the Livestrong campaign as something good that this man did. Hitler also gave a lot to his fellow germans, but that was his way to convince them that he was a good person. Look at the scenario. He got cancer while starting a doping scheme, Ferrari, Bruneyl and LA saw the oppertunity. They dope just enough not to test positive, Remember in his own word, I never tested positive, not I never doped. That is a huge deal. They Use the Livestrong camaign to put a halo above his head, he does not have to make a cent from that, because with his doping, he gets bonus's and sponsers. It was all about the money. Full stop! not about cycling, not about cancer! He used Livestrong to get effection from everyone, so that his "good" could overshadow all his bad. People that think that he has done good through Livestrong should open their eyes, because you are the fools. petatodd 1
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