David George gets 2 years

[HappyMartin]

My point:

Rules are rules. Laws are laws.

DG breaks the rule. And gets punished. OK.

And laws are laws. The most common law most people break is speeding. But they feel that is justified. For whatever reason. "A stupid law anyway" Only applies to old tannies.

Is that not what the dopers do? Think it is a stupid rule?

 

Totally agree. They think it a stupid law and they also think they are clever enough to not get caught. Would love to know for how long DG doped. Seems they all get caught eventually. Perhaps that last line is naive?

[TNT1]

I'm clearly not most people....

 

 

Me either.

 

I just obey every law as it comes. Makes life easier.

 

As in I must break the speed limit to accommodate you? I'd sooner bone tumbleweed's dog. I'll move to the left to allow you on your merry law breaking way, because I am not designated to enforce the law. But I will do what is right. As in, I will obey the laws of the land I am in, regardless of my personal emotion/attitude towards that law.

[SwissVan]

 

 

I just obey every law as it comes. Makes life easier.

 

 

 

OMGosh you could apply for a swiss passport

 

Ah wait....You do break some hub laws and the swissies will find that out when they run their background checks

 

Sorry....

 

eish, its late i'm outta here got some other planets to go pester

 

Peace earthlings

[TNT1]

OMGosh you could apply for a swiss passport

 

 

 

Haven't been there, but Germany was great. The rules, and the way everyone just obeys them. I was in love!

['Dale]

As a relevant side comment, I've never seen this before where an athlete actually displays his/her test results on a website:

 

http://www.chrissiewellington.org/drug-tests/

 

 

Impressive.

[Agteros]

oh my lawd...I'll try answer the question in an attempt to bring peace to the topic!!

 

Speed (in the sense of traveling vechiles) does not generally kill, its the sudden stop that does the damage.

 

Unfortunatelly this applies only to the person(s) traveling in / on the speeding vechle.

If your an innocent participant in a meeting (collision) with said speeding vechile then the speed its traveling at is mostly irrelevant, being run over by a vechile at 60kph compared to 80kph is equaly as devasting to the innocent participant.

 

However the speed you travel does affect your (the driver) ability to avoid such collision, the higher it is the less likely you can prevent the collision.

 

Qé?

So we are on the same page. Speed, per se, does NOT kill. Just like fire arms, per se, do NOT kill.

It is drivers and shooters (people), and the ill application of said methods/tools, who kill due to lack of judgement?

 

shock... horror... logic!

[Slowbee]

ok you two

['Dale]

Multiple handbag slinging...

It's been a while.

 

:-D

[Agteros]

ok you two

I do not mind engaging, however when the best answer to a decent question is mere name-calling it really gets to me.

 

As in real life, the moment a person cannot answer an easy and direct question it is a clear indication that they do not have an answer to the question, and need to side step the question...

 

Ag , wat ookal. Dis nie die moeite werd nie!

 

DG is geskors vir twee jaar. Hubbers wat ongelukkig is oor die duur van die verbod aan deelname is seker welkom om 'n betoog te lewer by NOCSA / SAIDSA / CSA / Departement van Sport / bedrogsaak by SAPS oop te maak

Edited December 5, 2012 by robox

[Agteros]

As a relevant side comment, I've never seen this before where an athlete actually displays his/her test results on a website:

 

http://www.chrissiew...org/drug-tests/

 

 

Impressive.

 

hoighty-toighty 'burn them at the stake'ers, and those with nothing to hide, but wanting to proof things, are welcome to do the same:

http://www.facebook.com/Purebloodathletes/info

http://www.purebloodathletes.com/

 

'only' R2500 per annum for six random tests

[Icycling]

Ok hubber - I know this comment is not really welcome here and I have not read the full tread - but at any rate:

 

1. I went to school with David George (DG) and then he stared cycling!

 

2. I help him a bit, been the older here, we talking the 80ies!

 

3. What you guys don't know I pleaded with Lawrence Whittaker (PPA chairman at the time) to allowed DG to ride with the A group in a local fun ride to prove himself - needless to say he won he event, off the top of my head, he broke away at the start of the event which then went straight up Constantia Nek too win the event. His 1st proper race round Rondebosch common UCT circuit race - he came 4th ( again off the top of my head).

 

4. He then went a bit into the recumbent scene!

 

5. The following year I distinctly remember telling him to wake up in a Giro del Capo stage where on Visserhoek I was coming past him at which point he did! Alan van Heerden won the stage and DG was way ahead of me and not loosing to much time on GC. He was then still a teenager / early 20 year old - I Cannot remember!

 

6. I was one off two people (Willie Engelbrecht and myself) to witness 1st hand ( his service car) his ride in the 97 world championship San Sebastian world championships - I have no doubt to believe this was done on been trained properly and nothing to do with substance abuse!

 

7. Unfortunately I was witness to him been lead astray with US postal ( but with all due respect this is a UCI problem not a DG problem) which to a degree ended our friendship.

 

David George was always an exceptionally talented cyclist way before he was introduced to a US postal program - whatever you Hubbers say you (99.9%) cannot claim to be that talented and dedicated to the sport of cycling. What DG has done was wrong or equal to what his fellow well most competitor were doing at the time - He was been " professional"

 

Who the F..K are you to judge (and this by no means am I condoning what has happened in cycling / DG over the past number of year) or are you too hight on something? Yes I too am frustrated with the situation but don't isolate 1 person(s) it is the governing body at fault! People end up doing what they have to do - you too are probably no different. You guys really do not know what was going down in the the late 90ies and the up until very recently! I can assure you I am a victim of this because of my principles - but to choose to judge people is also against my principles ( that for God to do) - yup DG and myself are only two of four cyclist to have done 3 sub 2h30 Cape Argus Pick 'n Pay cycle tour - I know I have done mine 100% clean - how many have you done in what ever state?

 

Stop judging - it just not worth it - you too I can assure you are also guilty of something!

 

 

http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s480x480/16028_10151339307630310_194739080_n.jpg

Edited December 5, 2012 by Icycling

['Dale]

What a post, icycling.

Great story.

Your personal connection to DG makes his ordeal very eina. For sure.

I agree that there was a prevailing culture and system where very few chose to not dope, and faced alienation by their peers.

 

'We', the public, yearn for greater ethics in the sport and its heroes.

I want to follow their success and admire his strength and speed when he zooms past me up Signal Hill Rd to win that time trial, NOT built on falsehood, NOT built on a broken rule.

The public have a voice here, whether 'we' have super athletic ability or not, 'WE' ARE FOLLOWERS/FANS.

 

What happened in the 90s in PRO cycling, I can appreciate.

What happened as a result of an off-season dope test in 2012, well, it is more difficult to reconcile in a period of renewing and improvement in the culture of the sport.

 

What I like about your story is that it speaks to the fact that he's just a man and superb athlete too, and that this should not be forgotten.

A man that bleeds red who was pressured into success at the highest level - by the environment (lots of dysfunction) AND BY HIS PERSONAL IDEALS (here he too makes a deep personal choice to cheat).

 

Hey, if Kevin Evans can end up speaking of having compassion, so can 'we', the public.

And, he broke a rule in sport; nothing more, nothing less.

 

Well done in your achievements too. Man, that must've been hard work to fulfill your potential. Indeed.

 

(Just my opinion in this sticky debate)

Edited December 6, 2012 by ' Dale

[HappyMartin]

lcycling, you raise what I believe are valid and fair points so far as not judging the man. No we don't know the pressures and yes he is or was a talented rider.

 

However I take issue with the faulty logic, or rather the emotional point of view, that states that we cannot judge or have an opinion on DG's negative actions because we are not in his league as cyclists. If we need to be as talented in order to have a point of view or opinion then that is the end of pro cycling. If we cannot have an opinion on cheating then don't expect us to have one on winning clean or any other aspect of cycling. In other words no more fans and no more pay day for the pros. Us fans, whether talented cyclists or not, are what brings money to the sport.

 

DG was more than happy to accept our opinions when he was winning and we were cheering. He must in return accept our anger and disappointment when it turns out he was cheating. Please note that I say he cheated, not that he is a cheat. I judge the action, and believe I have that right, but I am not judging the person

Edited December 6, 2012 by HappyMartin

[petatodd]

I'm clearly not most people....

 

My excuse is that i'm just traveling at the same speed as the people around me so as not to be like a rock in a flowing river....i.e. obstacle

 

Yes you right, imo, dopers (ala Contador, Millar et al....) must be laughing themselves silly whenever they have their annual dopers ball

Clearly not. Still having difficulty including the biggest doper ever in your list?

[SwissVan]

Clearly not. Still having difficulty including the biggest doper ever in your list?

 

Nope

Get over it troll

[Eldron]

 

Stop judging - it just not worth it - you too I can assure you are also guilty of something!

 

 

http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s480x480/16028_10151339307630310_194739080_n.jpg

 

Me - I'm going to differ..

 

I might have swallowed some of the "he was being professional" sentiment IF he was still racing in europe or on a Pro team but he isn't - he's riding on a local team with occassional sorties into europe. The pressures of organised doping are far less here.

 

Plus - there is nothing to judge - David chose to cheat - he bought and used EPO. He cheated me, you and every other cyclist out of 1 position in every tainted race he did. He also seriously derailed James' career, put Kevin in a tough position and killed a nation's dream of watching a South African team win the Epic. It's bigger than just David!

 

I really don't care that David is a nice guy, talented rider, good team mate to Kevin etc - the fact remains he took drugs to ride faster and benefitted financially and socially by doing it.

 

He falls into the doper category in my book and should be purged from cycling in totality.