Cyclists and road laws. Red lights, etc. (merged)

[davidl]

So much have been said on just about all the forums available about the behaviour of motorists and cyclists over the last week, especially since the tragic death of the late Burry Stander. We even have cyclists attacking each other over suggested behaviour. My opinion is that each one of us should do what is right and required of us as upstanding citizens. There will always be those who will not abide by the law, but if we decide that I will do what is right and the next and the next, maybe the list of those who do not, will become the minority and so we will be able to reduce the incidents/accidents.

[Witkop]

What about boxes like this that drive just how they want in peak morning traffic.

 

He stopped at a red light and proceeded to drive off. Also appeared to be under the influence of something. Couldn't stay in his lane and had the left turn signal on for a couple of blocks.

 

 

Yes I took the photo while stopped at the red light. I didn't kill any children in the process.

 

But there are no cyclists to account for his erratic behaviour. How dare you provide the cycling revolution with a "black swan"... All motorists are angels.

[covie]

So much have been said on just about all the forums available about the behaviour of motorists and cyclists over the last week, especially since the tragic death of the late Burry Stander. We even have cyclists attacking each other over suggested behaviour. My opinion is that each one of us should do what is right and required of us as upstanding citizens. There will always be those who will not abide by the law, but if we decide that I will do what is right and the next and the next, maybe the list of those who do not, will become the minority and so we will be able to reduce the incidents/accidents.

 

Problem here is it takes only 1 single cyclist to pi$$ off thousands of motorists.

[HappyMartin]

Yesterday I drove out to Carnival City and rode from there to Heidelberg and back to get some base distance. Did it twice but anyway. I decided I would obey all the rules of the road including stopping at those few isolated traffic lights. This was a new experience for me to be honest. I usually roll through these types of intersections

 

The most memorable experience was stopping at a t junction with a road entering from the right. I had a wide shoulder on the left but I stopped and waited anyway. No other vehicle in sight. Just me. Stood there in the heat looking at the mine dump and admiring the miellie fields. I kept wondering what the point of it all was. Not even an aircraft in sight. Tried telling myself that I was saving lives but I remain unconvinced. Still I did it.

 

Then I thought "If a cyclist stops at a red light and there is no one to see him stopped, did he still stop?" Ya boet, philosophy, it gets very deep.

 

Then again perhaps the heat had just fried my stupid ass roadie brain.

[eeeek]

This morning, whilst out running with a friend, we saw a near incident between a pedestrian and a cyclist... she (a non cyclist) asked me why the woman would have started crossing the road even after she had seen the cyclist? I explained the deceptive nature of a cyclists actual versus perceived speed, and mentioned that it was the reason for so many cyclist/car accidents are caused by right turning cars, she then responded by questioning that if she was driving a car and wanted to turn right, and there were no other oncoming cars, doesn't the cyclist have to stop and wait for her?

I launched headlong into a bicycle is a recognised road user, imagine its a car, and always ask yourself "if this really was a car, would I have right of way?"

To which she replied "I had always assumed that cyclists were basically glorified pedestrians because they don't obey any of the other rules of the road, like stopping at intersections?" (interesting to note that she doesn't read the papers, or watch the news, and was completely oblivious to the recent attention the issue has been getting from politicians and media)

 

I have never jumped a light, now I certainly never will... my friend may not be the brightest light on the tree, but by society's standards she is well above average... if she thought of cyclists as not being road users because they don't obey the rules of the road, it is not such a long shot for other drivers to arrive at the same conclusion.

[HappyMartin]

I like the logic. Cyclists don't obey all the road rules so kill the suckers.

[The Ouzo]

can't wait to see that big group of riders all stopped at every red robot at 06h00 on the main road from Atlas to east rand mall.... & not a car in sight

and riding in a single file.

 

that road is one of the worst roads in the east. and during those early hours of the morning motorists are even more inclined to be speeding/dunk/half asleep.

[Peanut Butter]

I'm sorry guys.

[nolipoli]

I have a dream that all cyclists and motorists shall use the roads in harmony and there will be no bloodshed amongst either group.

 

I have a dream that it will not be the laws that govern us but our humanity - that simple respect for your fellow man.

 

I have a dream that we can all as road users rise above our arrogance and admit when we are wrong. That we may never try to justify a wrong by only making it worse.

 

I have dream that as the city goes forward, as the country evolves there will be adequate consideration for all road users motorists and cyclists alike.

 

Smoke much?

[slowpoke]

What I truly struggle to understand about some people here is that they seem to think that because some of us are asking our fellow cyclists to adhere to the law, we are by default saying it's cyclists own fault they are dying at the hands of reckless drivers. This is simply not true. What is being said is that if we adhere to the law we will face less (not "no") aggression from motorized vehicles. We will improve our chances, not eliminate all risk. Also, the habit of abiding by the law will filter through to all aspects of life - if you are in the habit of stopping at red lights on your bike you are more likely to stop at them in your car. When the bulk of road users start abiding but he law the law breakers will become the ones who stick out like a sore thumb. Peer pressure might then get some more to adhere to the law. If we can reduce the reckless drivers by even one half our roads will be safer. We will never eliminate all reckless drivers. There will also always be the "poena gp"s around whose parents do not teach them responsibility or accountability or how to be a decent member of society. The most we can hope for is to minimize our risks, but I would still prefer to minimize than to maximize this.

[Lucky Luke.]

Ouzo I think you were better off just telling the cyclist off when it happened, at least you would of only got a bit of flack from him. Here on the hub you will get a lot more crap for it

 

Ja, but this way is much better, because he gets to tell us all how he was trackstanding, slipping a truck at 60, plus the added bonus of hooking up with all the other undercover bike-cops for yet another 700 page love-in.

 

Thread number 999000000, another classic in the familiar genre, where lawless cyclists are solely responsible for the big pile of corpses they leave in their wake. Where riders whose ignorant flouting of bylaws was so objectionable to the motoring public that they briefly switched focus, from smashing the f*ck out of each other, to pointing their blood-spattered bumpers at us lycra wearing light jumping bastards.

 

Guys, please be nicer on the roads so that the cars stop killing us. Wave at each other, stop frequently, and thank every car for not squashing you. Our lives depend upon it.

[petatodd]

Bicycles are subject to the same rules of the road, with obvious exceptions such as which you'd find when you compare the physical attributes of a car to a bicycle.

 

According to many posters here they are NOT. They HAVE to ride in the gutter and are not allowed to ride in a lane.

 

Oh, and many motorists believe that too. And unfortunately many cyclists. See the team bonitas thread.

 

I like the logic. Cyclists don't obey all the road rules so kill the suckers.

 

I like your thinking. Obviously why we have so many "Cyclist had fun on his bike today" threads like this one.

[urbanroyal]

This article was published in the Argus on friday..the writer Murray Williams makes some valid points I think..

 

 

Should we cyclists look at our own behaviour?

 

 

 

ARE RIDERS TAUGHT THE ART OF ANTICIPATION… OR TO RIDE DEFENSIVELY?

AS THE global cycling community bid farewell to Burry Stander, his last seconds alive are still not fully understood. We know the taxi did not necessarily “hit” him, but that there was a collision after the taxi turned across his path.

We know the precise cause/s may only become clearer – if at all – once the experts have concluded their investigations. Until then, as we desperately search for ways to make cycling safer, should we, as cyclists, perhaps also take a good look at our behaviour in the mirror?

Are some cyclists’ deaths due to lapses in concentration – not only by drivers, but cyclists? For example, how many cycle-vehicle crashes involved cyclists fiddling with their GPSs, water-bottles or energy bars?

Do cyclists ride too fast in certain areas, break the speed limit or bullet into “blind” space – like blind rises or corners – leaving too little time and space for motorists to take evasive action to avoid hitting us?

Are riders taught the art of anticipation, as heavy duty drivers are, or to ride “defensively”? For example, are riders mindful that a setting sun can blind drivers – that we become “invisible” in the glare?

Are cyclists sufficiently vigilant, on our toes – like being alert to vehicles’ indicator lights?

Do we look two, three cars ahead, to see what may cause drivers to slow or swerve?

 

Why are motorbikes forced by law to have their lights on, day and night, but not bicycles?

Why should a bicycle travelling at 60km/h have no lights, but a motorbike at the same speed must? The same with rear-view mirrors – is this an anomaly we should consider? Motorists are banned from using cellphones – shouldn’t bike riders be too? Many riders train with iPods and other MP3 players pumping. Do they realise being “deaf” on the road is a seriously bad idea?

Do enough riders on the roads have enough road training? We know that learner motorbike riders are particularly vulnerable, because they haven’t yet driven cars enough to appreciate just how invisible bikes often are. Should we be educating bicycle riders more expertly? And more questions like these… Some of these might seem outrageous as proposals. But they’re not proposals, they’re just questions. I am simply asking them because lives are so valuable that we are dutybound to be exhaustively thorough, to look at the full spectrum of cycle deaths’ causes, at every possible contributory factor.

A profoundly wrong starting point, which dooms many arguments to failure, is to think about cycling primarily as a “sport”.

No, cycling doesn’t deserve any special status on the public roads as a sport – unless in dedicated events, for example. Skateboarding and rollerblading are also sports, and yet are rightly banned from most public roads. Cycling doesn’t deserve any special treatment either.

Instead, cycling is primarily a legitimate form of transport, and it is as such – and not as a sport – that cyclists should be protected like all other road-users, along with pedestrians, motorcyclists, car drivers, truck drivers and even taxi drivers.

 

Perhaps, to honour Burry Stander, we cyclists need to ask ourselves some tough questions too.

[mudda]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5Mwau7-X8I

 

This is why Taxis are so dangerous to us.

 

Notice the aggression . . .

[gummibear]

Passing gap for cyclists won't work: report

 

 

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2013/01/12/passing-gap-for-cyclists-won-t-work-report

[River Rat]

Passing gap for cyclists won't work: report

 

 

http://www.timeslive...n-t-work-report

This just shows how little the so called experts know Mr. Esteves might want to consider the rule stating that the obligation is on the motorist to only pass a cyclist when it is safe to do so even if it means doing so in the other lane. Man, we have an enormous task ahead of us not only educating the motorist and cyclist but it woiuld seem the authorities as well.