trail - er - park Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Interesting one from Finnish brand Pole........with split graphics!http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb11788455/p5pb11788455.jpghttp://www.pinkbike.com/news/pole-rinne-yla-review-2015.html Bi-Poler ...???
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 The review for it is stellar... Very interested in this bike! http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb11788455/p5pb11788455.jpgReviewPoleRinne YlaWORDS Paul AstonPHOTOS Simon NieborakBased in Finland, Pole is a brand new company created by Leo Kokkonen, an engineer and passionate rider himself. The Rinne Ylä is Pole's flagship enduro bike, with 27.5" wheels, a slack, 65° head angle, and 153mm of rear travel via a concentric pivot that rotates around the bottom bracket. Our test bike arrived direct from the company's headquarters with a SRAM-heavy build that included a 160mm RockShox Pike, Monarch Plus RC3 rear shock, Guide brakes and an X01 / X1 drivetrain, finished off with DT-Swiss wheels and Maxxis' High Roller II tires front and rear. It's lighter than it looks at 29.4lb (13.35kgs) for a size L, and it retails for €4390 ($4970 USD approx), a competitive price from a niche brand. http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb11877889/p4pb11877889.jpgRinne Ylä Details• Intended use: Enduro Race / Adventure• Wheel travel: Front 160mm / Rear 153mm• Wheel size: 27.5"• 'Pole Link' Suspension• Full 7005 aluminium frame• ISCG-05 chain guide tabs• Rockshox Pike RCT3 / Monarch Plus RT3• SRAM X01 drivetrain• Reverb Stealth dropper seat post• SRAM Maxle 12mm X 150mm• Weight: 13.35kg (Large size tested)• MSRP: $4970 USD (approx) / €4390 Euro• www.pole.fi, @polebicyclesFrame DesignThe Rinne Ylä's tube set is full 7005 aluminum alloy, with a few chunks of CNC'd billet to link the swingarm together. A 150mm Maxle is used in conjunction with the 12 x 142mm hub. This allows the dropouts to be wider, and adds stiffness to the back end, also facilitating fitting the rear wheel by letting the axle stay on a straighter path and finding the threads on the opposite side more easily. The Monarch Plus pierces through the interrupted seat tube, with the Reverb Stealth hose running nearby, up into the bottom end of the seat tube. All of the cable routing is external, located on either side of the down tube. It is possible to mount a water bottle cage to the Rinne, but the shock layout forces these mounting points to the underside of the downtube, mud's favorite place to accumulate. http://ep3.pinkbike.org/p1pb6168857/p1pb6168857.jpg Clockwise from left: Chunky drop-outs for the 142mm hub and 150mm Maxle. The Pole-Link is a simple design. Saddle design by 2 year-old Ukko, and the Monarch Plus which pierces the seat tube.For any bike-mountaineers out there, removing the shock bolt allows the rear wheel to be folded under the bike (also useful for putting it into your car). Pole are working with a backpack manufacturer which will have fixing points so you can throw it on your back and get hiking into uncharted territory. Suspension LayoutThe 'Pole Link' is the heart of the bike, a concentric pivot that rotates on cartridge bearings that also double as the bottom bracket. The axle of the cranks run on the inner race of the bearings, and the swingarm pivots on the outer race; this means there is zero interference between the two as they are always active together.The 'Pole-Link' is not a new idea by any means, but it's a lesser explored avenue when it comes to suspension design due to the dreaded, inefficient pedal-bob demon, although it does offer many advantages from an engineer's point of view - the suspension is completely isolated from any drivetrain forces, creating a more active and supple suspension. Where many bikes currently are designed with some degree of anti-squat in order to prevent the suspension from compressing during pedalling efforts, the Rinne Ylä suspension configuration means that the chain has no influence, either positive or negative, on the suspension.Does pedal bob mean that the bike is inefficient? According to designer Leo, no. He believes that a bike with strong anti-squat can actually be less efficient, as there will always be a downward force on the bike as you pedal; if your bike doesn't squat, there is energy being lost somewhere in order to support your body weight. He feels that with a concentric pivot the bike will bob, but more of the energy from your legs will be transferred into the chain and cassette to drive the bike forward rather than prevent the bike from sinking under your weight. More importantly, does pedal-bob really matter on a mountain bike? Bobbing around on a smooth climb might not be ideal, but modern shocks, with all their different modes and tune-ability are able to do a fair amount to negate this. With an isolated drivetrain, when you're pedalling over bumps the suspension is free to move, sticking to the ground and allowing the tire to grip. GeometryThe Rinne Ylä is certainly unique in the looks department, and though it may not the most pretty up close, it certainly has stance, maybe enough to warrant a generic 'Low is a Lifestyle' sticker from a Japanese driftmobile. It’s clear that Pole don't give a damn about trends, and have done it how they wanted, creating close-to DH geometry on a 153mm bike: 65 degree head angle, 460mm reach in the large size, and its 1237mm wheelbase (I measured the wheelbase at 1250mm) is longer than many DH bikes and all of its 160mm rivals. While many bikes claim to be low, long and slack, the Rinne truly is, with its reach numbers placing it up there with boundary pushers like Kona, Mondraker and Orbea. That long reach is only part of the story, and where a long front center combined with short chainstays is the current prevailing geometry trend, Pole have gone the opposite direction, with a chain stay length of 450mm. Leo suggests that the chainstays should be even longer with his larger frames, and has some prototypes in testing. From the EngineerCurious to find out what inspired the creation of this unique ride, I asked Leo Kokkonen, the man behind the designs at Pole Bikes, a few questions about his baby.http://ep3.pinkbike.org/p1pb6168857/p1pb6168857.jpg Why did you start the company; what was your inspiration and goal?Let's put it this way. Q: Why does a dog licks his balls? A: Firstly, he can do it, and secondly he likes it. We can do it because I'm a designer myself and I have an industrial design company and we love bicycles.http://ep3.pinkbike.org/p1pb6168857/p1pb6168857.jpg What inspired you to use a concentric pivot and why? I loved the idea of a bike which was easier to tune and handle. The concentric pivot point answers to these questions.http://ep3.pinkbike.org/p1pb6168857/p1pb6168857.jpg How did you choose the geometry? Professional rider Matti Lehikoinen consulted us at the beginning. We started off with the geometry design of a downhill bike with 26" tires at first because that was the field we knew the best. We had cooperation with BTR Fabrications from UK to help us with the prototypes and finalizing the design. We asked Matti which bike he liked to ride the most from his past and we started to find out the geometry on that bike. That bike had a custom geometry made for Matti and the bike was still in Finland so it was the best place to start.At that time we didn't think about the overall concept that much. We found out that the bike Matti liked had a long chainstay. As we wanted to create something different we started to analyze motocross bikes as well because this industry has a longer pedigree in the geometry and wheel size debate. Motocross bikes have fairly long chainstay compared to the front center and short stem or no stem at all (compared to the average mountain bike). As the mountain bikes have been evolving to have shorter stems and slacker head angles the chainstays have stayed short, and we think that the balance between the front and rear center has been missed. The long chain stay on a concentric bike doesn't mean the same thing as in high pivot point bicycle. The concentric system shortens when compressed and the high pivot point bike extends. This is why a concentric system is easier to corner - it gets shorter in the corners. Also you get better grip because the rear wheel doesn't escape to a different "orbit."http://ep3.pinkbike.org/p1pb6168857/p1pb6168857.jpg What are your thoughts on anti-squat? I've obviously had different bikes with different suspension concepts. I've raced downhill and have been a mountain biker for a while. I have noticed that many bikes have a tendency to slow down in rough sections and they feel very hard to pedal uphill if you compare them to hardtails. I studied the mechanisms of bicycle suspension and I had an insight that if a bike has high anti-squat rate and chain stretch it slows the bicycle down. The more anti-squat you have the more it slows you down. If you exceed 100% of AS you are extending the swingarm by every pedal stroke. Also, the anti-squat affects the suspension dynamics and the shocks are not easy to tune. In a concentric system the pedal kickback is counter clockwise. This way the bicycle doesn't slow down on bumps and the shock is not affected by the transmission that much. The downside is that you can feel the bike compress with the first pedal strokes and you lose some of the power, but it'll pay off in uphill and the rough places. The lack of anti-squat hardly matters when you get the bike going and it's not that bad in the beginning either.http://ep3.pinkbike.org/p1pb6168857/p1pb6168857.jpg What testing did you do? We wanted to know if my thoughts were correct or not. I think the best way to make sure is to ride the bikes as soon as possible. We had different bikes to test and we used a stopwatch to do it. I think this is the only way to tell the differences between bikes. We ran timed runs downhill, enduro and XC. Also we did short uphill sprints to see if the anti-squat has a big influence. We compared the times to different bikes and riders. We tried to conceal the rider effect from the study. Our next goal is to study the energy put in compared to the time with different geometries and suspension types. Components: Specifications Release Date 2015 Price $4200 Travel 153mm Rear Shock RockShox Monarch Plus RC3 216×63 Fork RockShox Pike RCT3 Solo Air 160mm Headset Cane Creek 10.ZS44 / 10.ZS56 Cassette SRAM XG1180 Crankarms SRAM X1 1400 T32 170mm Chainguide N/A Bottom Bracket Pole®Link Pedals N/A Rear Derailleur SRAM X01 Chain SRAM PC1130 Front Derailleur N/A Shifter Pods SRAM X1 11-speed Handlebar Raceface SIXC ¾” RISER 785mm Stem Raceface Atlas 50mm Grips Raceface Half Nelson Brakes SRAM GUIDE RS F180mm / R180mm Wheelset DT Swiss EX 1501 SPLINE® ONE 27.5 (12x142mm) Tires MAXXIS HighRoller II 3C/EXO/TR Seat Pole “Cheek” Ukko Kokkonen Design Seatpost RockShox Reverb Stealth Compare to other XC/All-Mountain Bikes Riding theRinne ClimbingSo how did it actually ascend? Switching the Monarch to the Firm compression mode on the fire road liaison to the trails there was little to report. When hitting the rising singles and changing in to Mid compression mode, there was some noticeable bob, which felt alien at first. After a couple of rides I barely noticed it, with it only being visible when pedalling and looking down at the damper. What did become apparent though, was the grip and suspension action; it really dug in when the trail loosened up and traction was called for, and floated through roots and rocks more than bouncing around on top and over them.Even though my bike had all the angles for going down, the long back end mixed with a the steep 76 degree seat angle meant my weight was well in front of the rear wheel, a big benefit when the incline increased. One characteristic that was certainly different compared to 'normal' bikes was the way the suspension dove deeply when riding through compressions seated, although this was much less apparent when climbing out of the saddle.The slack head angle, DH bike wheelbase and grippy MaxxTerra tires means it's not going to be a whippet up the climbs, but it certainly didn't slouch, and did the job in a forgiving manner - it's more of a Land Rover than a quad bike. Equipped with a tried and tested low range X01 1x11 drivetrain, the 42t cassette and a 34t ring upfront meant that there was enough spread to conquer most climbs. http://ep3.pinkbike.org/p1pb6168857/p1pb6168857.jpg The geometry of the Pole is perfect for attacking the downs, just don't let it run away with you.DescendingWhen the nose starts pointing down, the Pole's monster trucking capabilities are unleashed, and its great geometry genuinely lets you attack like you're on a downhill bike, with loads of stability thanks to the extra-long wheelbase. When pumping through rough chatter, the Pole accelerates, with the incredibly active 153mm Monarch Plus munching everything in its path. Once up to speed it takes a lot to slow the bike down – the amount of momentum is carries is something else. I ran the Pike with 3 air volume spacers; the added progression and support from this allows you to plow harder into holes and down steps and drops. When testing back to back on my final outing on the Pole (it was a sad day indeed) against a shorter, steeper bike, a disconnected synapse was bridged in my brain, and I came to the realization that it takes a certain amount of confidence to ride a bike like this; keeping your weight over the front needs to become natural in your reactions with the aggressive geometry. If that confidence falters, and you find yourself leaning back in corners, the front wheel can become light when you least need it to. It's crucial to stay on top of your charge in the center of the bike no matter what happens, this can take some practice and rewiring of your mindset.Luckily, safely weighting the front end is child's play, helping to build confidence in the bike's grip on cambers and corners. The Pole hauled around long, contoured arcs where time can really be gained or lost, and being more centered between the wheels and having to worry less about weight shifting meant I could just lean in and let it track, while the active suspension also played a huge role keeping the wheel gripping and planted.After becoming accustomed to the bike over the course of a few rides, I never felt the long wheelbase to be much of a hindrance on slower, tighter sections; it simply means you need to readjust your timing, just like when you change to a 29er. The key is to turn the front wheel a little wider before dropping the bike and committing to the turn. I think people often worry about tight corners too much anyway – when you think about it, how much time do you really spend on tight corners? Tenths compared to seconds spent bounding down straights, across cambers or around long arcs? Of course, riders whose home terrain is lacking in longer straightaways and sections where a bike can be allowed to run may want to search out something slightly more maneuverable.WheeliesJust after the bike arrived, I received a message from God (Pinkbike's Richard Cunningham) saying that the bike would pedal like crap, but will be amazing for wheelies for some inexplicable reason. Like many messages from above, I took it with a pinch of salt and promptly forgot about it. Then, while descending a tarmac road in search of a trail (or salvation?) I popped a manual, which went on, and on, and on, like some old book. Perhaps it was the lack of chain tension when pumping that lets the bottom bracket sink and pull up the front end of the bike? Whatever the case may be, the wheelies were never-ending - perhaps I was being balanced from above. Technical Report•The 2.35” High Roller IIs mixed with the (25mm ID) DT Swiss Spline One wheelset was a great combo, Sure, the MaxxTerra compound front and rear added a little more resistance on the climbs (I usually use a harder compound tyre on the rear) but grip was great and tire stability was reassuring.• The rear shock placement is not ideal. We needed to replace the DU bushing after a few weeks of riding due to the mud from the rear tire flinging directly onto the the eyelet. We changed for a heavy duty FOX 3-piece bushing which lasted much longer. We also had teething issues with the pre-loading of the pivot and linkage with bearings becoming worn and developed play after a few weeks. We swapped out to some EnduroMax bearings which was a fairly simple procedure, and they lasted longer again. Although having to change the bearings seemed like hassle at first, when considering it's a full bottom bracket and pivot overhaul it's not excessive maintenance by any means.• Not once did I drop a chain during testing, even on the roughest sections with long periods in-between pedal strokes. The X01 with the X-Sync chainring does a great job, but I usually expect to drop a chain once in a while. I attribute this to the constant chain length not pulling the chain from the lower teeth once it has started to unhook itself. • I wasn't a fan of the saddle, it just didn't seem to fit my ass, despite my ass' fitness. But it does have a nice design by 2 year old Ukko.• The Stealth Reverb is simple to install, as the seat tube is open just above where the shock pierces through, but it runs very close to the Monarch's piggy back, causing the hose to rub the shock.Pinkbike's Take:http://es.pinkbike.org/245/sprt/i/bigquotes.pngPole have taken a different approach to bike geometry and suspension design, but those risks have paid off - they've created a machine that's incredibly capable on the descents, an absolute monster when it comes to flat out speed and confidence inspiring in all areas. Its trail performance over less steep terrain was commendable as well, and although it won't climb the fastest it does simplify techy climbs, plus it wasn't designed for setting any records on the way up. And don't forget the Rinne's ridiculous wheelie capability, which comes in handy for impressing kids, girls and fans in the street. - Paul Aston
Josh0 Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I like impressing girls with wheelies, so this is the bike for me!SOLD! Captain Fastbastard Mayhem and Skott5 2
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 That split decal though...*side eye*Looks like it says Mole Pole...
NicoBoshoff Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Looks like it says Mole Pole... Or Mom-sen... Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 1
Steven Knoetze (sk27) Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Can you say SEXY! http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb11881642/p5pb11881642.jpghttp://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb11782448/p5pb11782448.jpg http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb11782446/p5pb11782446.jpg http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb11782442/p4pb11782442.jpg http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb11693720/p5pb11693720.jpgAwesome looking bike!!! Edited February 10, 2015 by Steven Knoetze (sk27)
MrJacques Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 FAIR WHEEL BIKES’ PIVOT MACH 6 “XXTR” 22.6LB ENDURO MACHINE That's +- 10.3 kgs http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/fair-wheel-bikes-pivot-mach-6-xxtr-project-bike-1-600x361.jpg http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/fair-wheel-bikes-pivot-mach-6-xxtr-project-bike-2-600x337.jpg Mar and RockCoach 2
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 Wouldn't trust that bar and stem though... Sidewinder. 1
Flowta Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 Wouldn't trust that bar and stem though... Which bar and stem? and why not?
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 Which bar and stem? and why not?The one on the Pivot above... For my weight, that's not something I'd willingly put on my bike. "The other touch points are equally feathery with a Schmolke TLO Lo Rise carbon handlebar, KCNC foam grips and Extralite Hyper Stem. Assuming they used the widest bar (which is only 680mm), those parts come in at 110g, 15g and ~70g, respectively."
Eddy Gordo Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 hmm I would have to agree. Thats pretty lightweight stuff and not necessary the strongest
AREM Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 FAIR WHEEL BIKES’ PIVOT MACH 6 “XXTR” 22.6LB ENDURO MACHINE That's +- 10.3 kgs http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/fair-wheel-bikes-pivot-mach-6-xxtr-project-bike-2-600x337.jpg Love the chain
popcorn_skollie Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 http://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/users/31256/setup_checks/26315/photos/27849/s1600_14817962804_849ed391c6_k.jpg?1407112646 insert villain laugh here Josh0, MarcBurger, Bizkit031 and 1 other 4
Iwan Kemp Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 The one on the Pivot above... For my weight, that's not something I'd willingly put on my bike. "The other touch points are equally feathery with a Schmolke TLO Lo Rise carbon handlebar, KCNC foam grips and Extralite Hyper Stem. Assuming they used the widest bar (which is only 680mm), those parts come in at 110g, 15g and ~70g, respectively." Makes no sense. A proper stem and bar would add no more than 200g - then you're at 10.5kg and it will be exponentially more fun. And safe. Captain Fastbastard Mayhem, TopFuel, Josh0 and 2 others 5
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