LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[davetapson]

Mark Sisson on Ray Peat:

http://www.marksdail.../#axzz2pwtux6Op

 

Edit: Now that I'm at a computer - here's the take-away:

Dear Mark,

What do you think of Ray Peat? I’ve noticed that some forum users like what he has to say. Where do you stand on his protocol?

Thanks,

Jon

Thanks for the question, Jon. Yes, I’ve seen that Ray Peat has been a topic of discussion in recent months. I’ll give you my take, but first a little overview on the “Peat protocol.”

It’s hard to talk about a “Peat protocol,” simply because the man himself hasn’t laid out a cohesive prescription (by design). From what I can tell, people are cobbling together a dietary regimen based on bits of advice Peat has doled out over the years in email consultations, excerpts from some of his research articles, and interviews he has given. I get the sense that his advice is very individualized and tailored to the person who’s receiving it rather than meant to be prescriptive to everyone. Most people are just reading the tidbits pulled from disparate sources and formulating a protocol based on them even though those tidbits weren’t necessarily intended for everyone. I doubt Peat himself lives off of nothing but gummy bears, OJ, coffee, and salted milk.

That said, there do appear to be some foundational principles that we can examine. Let’s take a look at them:

Saturated fats – Both camps agree that they’re awesome, stable and resistant to oxidation, and totally safe in the context of an otherwise healthy diet. The same goes for monounsaturated fats, which often appear alongside saturated fats. No arguments here.

Grains and legumes – Both camps avoid them, especially gluten-containing grains. Both camps agree that of the grains, rice and corn are the least problematic.

Use of the whole animal – Both camps support the consumption of the entire animal, including organs, glands, bones, and gelatinous connective tissue (which, remember, makes up a large percentage of the weight of a carcass that we usually just throw away nowadays). To achieve that, I’d like to see people making bone broth, eating oxtail and shank and chicken foot and turkey neck, and cooking up a pot of fish head stew every so often, not relying on gummy bears and marshmallows for their gelatin (although plain gelatin can be a helpful supplement and cooking ingredient). Judging from his article on gelatin, Peat would probably prefer gelatinous whole foods over reliance on purified gelatin, too.

PUFA avoidance – Peat and followers consider polyunsaturated fats to be toxic (both omega-3s and omega-6s), whether from whole foods or refined oils. I’ve always maintained that too many PUFAs, particularly omega-6 PUFAs, are problematic and inflammatory. The problem is that the studies they cite as evidence used refined oils, not food. They’re not feeding wild salmon to rats, or raw almonds to poultry. They’re giving refined diets rich in industrial seed oil because that’s the simplest way to modify PUFA content while minimizing confounding variables that might change the results (like selenium and astaxanthin in salmon or vitamin E and magnesium in almonds). I understand it, I just don’t think the results are necessarily applicable to whole foods that happen to contain PUFAs. And heck, the claims that PUFAs in any amount are hugely anti-thyroid and will shut your metabolism down just don’t pan out. One recent paper even found that omega-3s increased thyroid function in the liver. Given his recommendation of eggs and shellfish, I think Peat will admit a little whole food-PUFA is fine.

Sugar – Peat is “pro-sugar,” which many people interpret by eating plain white sugar by the quarter cup. I think this is a mistake and a far cry from what Peat actually promotes. From what I can tell, Peat is pro-sugar-via-fruit. Now, I’m obviously not a fan of fruit-based diets, but fruit is a whole unprocessed edible plant food, with all the fiber, vitamins, minerals, and phytonutrients that category entails. Fruit therefore is a legitimate source of calories, particularly if you’re active.

High-fat diets – Followers avoid high fat intakes, citing Peat, but Peat’s primary reason for limiting fat is to avoid PUFAs. He even says that “if the fat is mostly saturated, from milk, cheese, butter, beef, lamb or coconut oil, I think it’s usually o.k. to get about 50% of the calories from fat.” I think that’s reasonable.

My general impression is that the “Peat protocol” is anything but definitive, and what we can establish isn’t all that far removed from the Primal umbrella (albeit a high carb section of it). Now, as for the people mainlining table sugar and avoiding bananas because of the starch and skipping the leafy greens and berries because of the minimal amount of PUFAs and fearing muscle meat without an accompanying tablespoon of gelatin (or pack of gummy bears)? I think that’s all a little silly. Then again, if it works for you, it works for you. I’m not going to tell you to stop doing something that’s working (though I might suggest a few ways to improve).

You know, I bet Peat would be quite at home at PrimalCon. He might hoard the fruit and spike the coffee with crushed thyroid pills and aspirin, but I don’t think we’d catch him sneaking off to a grocery store for skim milk and strained orange juice or anything. His followers might be a bit disappointed in the California king salmon, though.

Edited January 23, 2014 by davetapson

[Topwine]

Mark Sisson on Ray Peat:

http://www.marksdail.../#axzz2pwtux6Op

 

Mark Sisson is no Ray Peat, and a master of spin, but I'll admit he got it right on most, (not all), counts.

 

The study he cites in "support" for Omega 3 oils as "increasing thyroid function", is however why I will rather trust the advice and interpretation of Ray Peat's experience vs Mark Sisson's. The only thing that study points out is that compared to Omega 6 oils, the thyroid "receptor" activity is increased. So not compared to people eating a diet deficient, or at least limited, in PUFA's and certainly they did not compare effects of normal good thyroid function vs on a PUFA diet.

 

Here is a good recent review study highlighting the role of thyroid hormone in hepatic (liver) lipid metabolism.

 

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/216/3/R47.long

 

Thyroid hormones are important modulators of lipid metabolism because the liver is a primary hormonal target. The liver is the major site for cholesterol and triglyceride metabolism, and thyroid hormones play an important role in hepatic lipid homoeostasis (Malik & Hodgson 2002). Cholesterol is an essential constituent of most biological membranes and it is also a precursor in the synthesis of bile acids, steroid hormones and some vitamins. Normal serum thyroid hormones levels are essential for the maintenance of a sufficient pool of cholesterol to meet the body's requirements and to regulate the critical steps of cholesterol synthesis, uptake and metabolism

 

Long story short, if your bloodwork shows impaired lipid profiles, suspect a liver not functioning properly, or thyroid hormone function(at gland and/or cell level), or both .

[davetapson]

The ten commandments of beginner Banting...

 

http://realmealrevol...ner-Banting.pdf

The-Ten-Commandments-of-Beginner-Banting.pdf

Edited January 23, 2014 by davetapson

[Topwine]

The ten commandments of beginner Banting...

 

http://realmealrevol...ner-Banting.pdf

 

Funny, how suddenly there is a thyroid disclaimer in. Maybe Tim Noakes is reading this forum ...

 

The amount of hyperbole re sugar is poisonous , alcohol is toxic, etc, etc is overwhelming, but in the end they leave alcohol consumption up to oneself, but carbs not ? And no mention of PUFA's ?

 

They also call this a Banting diet, but William Banting ate bread, and his diet certainly was not zero carb.

http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-real-diet-of-william-banting-that.html

 

Interestingly he didn't eliminate bread entirely. He had up to 4 slices a day. He lived to be 81 for what it's worth.

 

Why now? Well this letter was cited yet again in a recent "study" by Taubesian newcomer Tim Noakes, that was miraculously published in the South African Medical Journal. I plan on blogging about that shortly and figured this made for a post on its own.

[Boesman Benson]

Some feedback:

 

Been eating Lower Carb, Higher Fat for about the last year. {Maybe substantially more good fat}.

 

Had Vitality Health day at the company today and checked Glucose and Total Cholestrol (at about 12h00). For what its worth, cholestrol down from 5.2 to 4.5 and glucose 4.9 today vs 5.6 last time.

 

And I had large piece of Chocolate cake with caramel last night. Special birthday treat........

[P.A.K.]

I was thinking of buying a blender (this one), but then decided that I might want to try making some nut butters too.

 

So I guess a food processor with a S-blade is needed. Any recommendations?

[DaleE]

I was thinking of buying a blender (this one), but then decided that I might want to try making some nut butters too.

So I guess a food processor with a S-blade is needed. Any recommendations?

 

Depends on your budget, but we bought a Thermomix a while back and have been delighted with it. Designed for more than your average weekend kitchen warrior ...

+- R12k, so not your average blender, makes nut butters with ease but also cooks, steams, shreds, grates, and does a bunch of other things too. The main advantage is that I can now cook just about everything from scratch - all sauces, mayo, herb blends, etc, etc. No more shop-bought condiments or sauces with weird ingredients

http://www.sathermomix.com

http://corporate.vor...chen-appliance/

 

Look for earlier posts on this thread ... IQof2's wife is an agent for them if you want more info.

Edited January 23, 2014 by DaleE

[davetapson]

I was thinking of buying a blender (this one), but then decided that I might want to try making some nut butters too.

 

So I guess a food processor with a S-blade is needed. Any recommendations?

 

We've got an old food processor (Molyneux) that has an s blade. Doesn't seem to get my mac nut butter smooth - stays a bit gritty. So maybe not all s-blade processors are the same...

[HappyMartin]

I add my vote to the thermomix. Pricey but I think it worth while.

[Topwine]

Tim Noakes just tweeted this article as a balanced view on LCHF diets for cyclists.

I tend to agree.

 

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/09/high-fat-low-carb-diets-the-effects-and-how-to-try-one/

[Leon Besaans]

Morning guys,

 

When I was in transition and not totally fat adapted yet, the max I got out of my heart was 176bpm. Last weekend I managed to get it up to 179. Now either I never pushed hard enough or being fat adapted has made some difference.

 

Just interesting.

 

Regards

[davetapson]

Morning guys,

 

When I was in transition and not totally fat adapted yet, the max I got out of my heart was 176bpm. Last weekend I managed to get it up to 179. Now either I never pushed hard enough or being fat adapted has made some difference.

 

Just interesting.

 

Regards

 

This is something that I noticed too, and has been mentioned on the thread a couple of times. Is indeed interesting.

[davetapson]

Ketone energy drink...

 

http://news.yahoo.com/video/ketone-based-sports-drink-promises-190556520.html?soc_src=copy

[DaleE]

Ketone energy drink...

 

http://news.yahoo.co...ml?soc_src=copy

 

Yeah, saw that ... curious as to how they create ketones artificially.

Think I'll stick to letting my liver do it for me

[davetapson]

Yeah, saw that ... curious as to how they create ketones artificially.

Think I'll stick to letting my liver do it for me

 

I wonder what the effect would be for a non-fat adapted individual? I'm wondering if they could/would burn ketones?

 

Also wonder how MCT oil (or coconut oil) would compare for a fat adapted individual. Maybe I will take a spoon of coconut oil before some HIT and see if I see a difference...

[jcza]

I wonder what the effect would be for a non-fat adapted individual? I'm wondering if they could/would burn ketones?

 

Also wonder how MCT oil (or coconut oil) would compare for a fat adapted individual. Maybe I will take a spoon of coconut oil before some HIT and see if I see a difference...

 

I don't think MCT oil or any other fat will make any difference. Surely we have enough already?