LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[Boesman Benson]

Tim Noakes just tweeted this article as a balanced view on LCHF diets for cyclists.

I tend to agree.

 

http://cyclingtips.c...how-to-try-one/

 

From personal experience - I agree with this as well.

I found that in road races I battle to stay with the bunch at critical moments. Once dropped, I still ride strong, but at my prefered intensity.

• LCHF is not recommended if you want to be competative in road cycling.
  
• For endurance MTBing I think it works pretty well.
  

[Sniffie]

Ketone energy drink...

 

http://news.yahoo.co...ml?soc_src=copy

I think it might prove useful for a non and semi fat adapted athlete, but not for a fully adapted individual. Might be wrong though?

[Sniffie]

I wonder what the effect would be for a non-fat adapted individual? I'm wondering if they could/would burn ketones?

 

Also wonder how MCT oil (or coconut oil) would compare for a fat adapted individual. Maybe I will take a spoon of coconut oil before some HIT and see if I see a difference...

I am with JC on this. I think once fat adapted extra MCT like coconut should not make a difference. Useful to kickstart ketone production after a lay off though:

 

"There are a couple ways to kickstart ketone production, if that’s what you’re after. You can increase your intake of medium chain triglycerides, as found in coconut products. Since MCTs don’t show up in cell membranes and never really appear in adipose tissue, they go directly to the liver to be converted into acetyl-CoA for energy. Remember how the acetyl-CoA-ATP pathway can be overwhelmed, thus spurring the creation of ketones? That’s what eating MCTs can do – increase ketone production. Use more coconut oil and fewer long-chain saturated fats (which do go into cell membranes, can show up in adipose tissue, and are less likely to overwhelm the liver’s ability to make ATP), like animals fats, while you get adjusted."

 

From Mark Sisson in Mark's Daily Apple

[lloydkayak]

I had a vitality review about 2 weeks after starting banting (November) and again yesterday.

 

Cholesterol is up from 4.6 - 5.02 (just losing the points), blood pressure was about the same, waist 1cm smaller but weight registered at 103 kg, down from 109kg.

 

I am organising blood tests at pathcare to check LDL vs HDL and I guess I will test regularly to check how the ratios behave.

 

I must confess, I am not strict enough to stay in ketosis... but my general carb intake has definitely plummeted (2 weeks around Christmas was not good!)

 

All in all, I am happy that I may finally break 100kg soon!

[jcza]

From personal experience - I agree with this as well.

I found that in road races I battle to stay with the bunch at critical moments. Once dropped, I still ride strong, but at my prefered intensity.

• LCHF is not recommended if you want to be competative in road cycling.
  
• For endurance MTBing I think it works pretty well.
  

 

Same here and suffered loads of a result of this. Found that by consuming hi GI (muffins) prior to race and during race (gels) it can be avoided.

 

Fuel economy has definitely improved. Can ride much further on less.

[Dirt De Vil]

From personal experience - I agree with this as well.

I found that in road races I battle to stay with the bunch at critical moments. Once dropped, I still ride strong, but at my prefered intensity.

• LCHF is not recommended if you want to be competative in road cycling.
  
• For endurance MTBing I think it works pretty well.
  

 

Spot on. I completed the 2013 Transbaviaans in 13:19 with just water and protien, overall carb intake for the day came to 1% only. Avg HR at 69%.

 

Did the Nissan Van Gaalens 75km race at avg HR of 79% and battled, it felt harder than the Transbaviaans. I need to work out a feulling strategy for races.

[deanbean]

I need a fueling strategy for a race I have to ride on the 8 Feb. I'm not fat adapted yet, and I'll only be 1 month into the HFLC diet. I have to do the race as it is our local one, and I'll do the 65km ride. I'm not going to go flat out, I'll try to keep my HR at about 70-80%, but the fueling has me at a quandary. Should I go back to the HC breakfast (Porridge and sweetened yoghurt) and gels for the race, or start on a fatty breakfast, bacon & eggs cooked in cream, and Bulletproof coffee, and then fuel as I used to with Perpetuem and Hammer gel.

 

Suggestions please (I'm more likely to do the second option).

[jcza]

I need a fueling strategy for a race I have to ride on the 8 Feb. I'm not fat adapted yet, and I'll only be 1 month into the HFLC diet. I have to do the race as it is our local one, and I'll do the 65km ride. I'm not going to go flat out, I'll try to keep my HR at about 70-80%, but the fueling has me at a quandary. Should I go back to the HC breakfast (Porridge and sweetened yoghurt) and gels for the race, or start on a fatty breakfast, bacon & eggs cooked in cream, and Bulletproof coffee, and then fuel as I used to with Perpetuem and Hammer gel.

 

Suggestions please (I'm more likely to do the second option).

 

If you keep HR < 70% then coffee and water is ok. If not go with carbs.

[davetapson]

I need a fueling strategy for a race I have to ride on the 8 Feb. I'm not fat adapted yet, and I'll only be 1 month into the HFLC diet. I have to do the race as it is our local one, and I'll do the 65km ride. I'm not going to go flat out, I'll try to keep my HR at about 70-80%, but the fueling has me at a quandary. Should I go back to the HC breakfast (Porridge and sweetened yoghurt) and gels for the race, or start on a fatty breakfast, bacon & eggs cooked in cream, and Bulletproof coffee, and then fuel as I used to with Perpetuem and Hammer gel.

 

Suggestions please (I'm more likely to do the second option).

 

Dean - I'd not sweat it. What you do for one meal for one day is not going to make a hell of a difference anyway.

 

I'd go for whatever you feel like on the morning, although I'd not go beserk on the high gi stuff - maybe stick butter and cream on your porridge or use Greek double cream unflavoured yoghurt.

 

Then race on gels/carb juice as you feel. Only start taking them at or after the start to avoid starting the race with an insulin spike.

 

My 2c.

 

I'm doing Barberton tomorrow - will have futurelife with a bit of milk and a lot of cream (to modulate the insulin response) and maybe Greek yoghurt and will take gels / bars during the race. Futurelife because I will be camping, arriving late at night and getting up early and I don't want the fuss of having to think about breakfast.

[deanbean]

If you keep HR < 70% then coffee and water is ok. If not go with carbs.

Dean - I'd not sweat it. What you do for one meal for one day is not going to make a hell of a difference anyway.

 

I'd go for whatever you feel like on the morning, although I'd not go beserk on the high gi stuff - maybe stick butter and cream on your porridge or use Greek double cream unflavoured yoghurt.

Thanks for that, I think I'll go with the rolled oats yoghurt and cream then Dave, then fuel as per normal during the ride, I never start fueling before about 45min into a ride anyway, so will go with my normal strategy.

JCZA, if I could keep my HR below 70% I would, but the hills man, they are steep and long, and they come one after the other, so in my present state of fitness it'll be a push. As it is I'm going to put gears om my bike, and a tiny ring on the front.

I've found a source of yoghurt in our town, they make an unflavored, unsweetened, full cream yoghurt, in 2.5l buckets for R48, picked up a bucket this morning, and it tastes good. All their yoghurts are made with full cream milk, so I want to check what they put in the fruit yoghurts.

[Boesman Benson]

I need a fueling strategy for a race I have to ride on the 8 Feb.

 

You doing Dullstroom?

 

Suggestions please (I'm more likely to do the second option).

 

For pre-race - Maybe try bowl of oats with 30g butter and 30 g Coco Oil.....maybe a bit of honey

[deanbean]

For pre-race - Maybe try bowl of oats with 30g butter and 30 g Coco Oil.....maybe a bit of honey

Not Dullstroom, but a local ride down here, near East London, Stutterheim MTB, the butter , or cream is a given, fresh from the cow , the cream that is!

[P.A.K.]

The LCHF diet is being put to the test in the lab and compared to the low fat high carb diet.

 

UCT is conducting research into how blood glucose is maintained during exercise in cyclists who eat very low carbohydrate diets. We are looking for male cyclists who eat on either extreme: low carb high fat (LCHF) or high carb low fat. If you eat this way and are interested in participating in research please go to the following link for more details: http://essm.uct.ac.z...rcise/#more-349

 

The testing takes place in Cape Town and feedback will be given on all tests done. Examples of feedback include (but not limited to) VO2max, peak power, fat and carbohydrate oxidation rate, glucose tolerance and glucose production rate at the liver and kidneys.

 

Please spread the word if you know of anyone who might be interested.

 

Regards,

Chris

[Sniffie]

Hi Dean

At about this time last year I was in the same predicament in terms of just about a month into LCHF and doing my first race since starting LCHF. It was the bieliemielie at Reitz. Perhaps my experience would help you decide:

For starters Reitz is a lot flatter than Stutterheim, but lots more rolling hills than Bothaville where I hail from. I decided to do the 70 km on water alone. The good thing is I had the same energy and legs at the end as I had in the beginning (which was not a lot unfortunately). But I felt that I could easily do 50 km more at my pace. Humiliating to say the least being passed by a lot of people you know you should be beating. (JCZA on the day almost caught me and he was doing the 120 km. But then the man is a machine!)

 

Anyway I did another couple of races afterwards on water alone and I might have improved somewhat but not massive by any means. I always had the same energy and legs at the start and finish, but finished about 10% to 15% slower than my training partners with similar fitness levels. I read on this thread how JC was training and racing and started to follow suit. The only difference I would make is go strict LCHF even up to and including breakfast before the race. Breakfast would be something like bacon and eggs or scrambled eggs and cream with coconut oil and cream coffee. The last 2 hours before the gun I would have nothing but water. With 5 min to go I would have a gel and then fuel with roughly one bottle of slightly diluted energy drink and one gel per hour.

In October last year I did Berg&Bush with this regimen and it worked pretty well. Staying LCHF on a stage race away from home is quite a challenge but I tried to avoid carbs between stages as far as possible. After the very hot first stage I had a beer lying in the cool waters of the Tugela and the evening of day 2 I gave in to one of my biggest temptations in life: chocolate brownies. Apart from that pretty low carbs for the 3 days. I was pushed beyond my comfort zone by a young racing snake of a partner 30 years my junior and rode the entire 3 stages with average heartrate in excess of 85%.

 

I have experimented with carbs as part of my pre race breakfast, but then I would feel pretty flat for the first 45 minutes to an hour. (Insulin spike causing my body to not know where the energy for the day would be coming from?)

 

Anyway with a lingering and niggling knee injury my days of trying to keep up with the front guys in my starting group seems to be over, but I would be pleased if I could carry on like this and finishing each race or stage without feeling to buggered. Hope my tale will help you somewhat.

[DaleE]

From personal experience - I agree with this as well.

I found that in road races I battle to stay with the bunch at critical moments. Once dropped, I still ride strong, but at my prefered intensity.

• LCHF is not recommended if you want to be competative in road cycling.
  
• For endurance MTBing I think it works pretty well.
  

 

For those who are interested, have a look at this lecture by Peter Attia - about 30min into the lecture he explains the chemistry of why / how energy is produced and why you sometimes need glucose.

[Topwine]

For those who are interested, have a look at this lecture by Peter Attia - about 30min into the lecture he explains the chemistry of why / how energy is produced and why you sometimes need glucose.

 

 

I have said it before, and I'll say it again. Peter Attia is wrong. He probably flunked his chemistry class. You ALWAYS need glucose, not just "sometimes". Also, burning fat IS NOT more efficient than burning glucose !

 

Why are these points even brought up again ? Everyone here is saying how they need extra glucose intake for higher intensity exercise. The chemistry predicts it, and people's experience just confirms it. EOS