LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[Vetseun]

Keep the recipe's coming guys

[jcza]

On the question of carbo loading .... are we not possibly missing something here?

 

The logic behind using LCHF as a fuelling strategy is to train our bodies to use fat for fuel ... but ...

1. We know that we need glucose when exercising in an anaerobic state (roughly 80% HRmax or more).

2. We know that being fat adapted reduces the requirement for glucose during exercise, and,

3. We know that taking carbs when not exercising reduces the body's ability to burn fat.

 

So ... why reduce the bodies ability to burn fat in the days before we want to make most use of this fat burning advantage? Surely it makes more sense to take those carb only when needed? What I am suggesting is that you stick with LCHF right up until 30min before you start the race, then start taking your carbs and continue for the duration of the exercise/race. Surely even a heavily fat adapted person would have enough glucose stored for the first half hour of exercise?

 

Or am I missing something here?

 

You're right Dale, carbo loading is a thing of the past BUT if you are training 10 hours or more a week and/or racing often you need to make certain allowances in order for the body to recover and achieve best results. LCHF up to 30 mins before race should be ok provided your glycogen stores are close to full. Fat adapted should have enough for 1.5 - 2 hours of intense exercise/racing. I know Dave asked Prof. Noakes about high intensity but I did not see a response. Below extract from Joe Friel & Loren Courdains book re glycogen stores. Personally I made some changes for racing and results are positive. For training I have a coffee, grab bottle of water and go. If its a long ride I'll have Coke or similar during ride.

[davetapson]

Another Sani done and dusted. Still amazed at the effect LC'ing has on my stage racing.

 

Fuel economy is such that I don't really have to fuss too much about when/what to eat - and I used to be paranoid about this stuff. If I didn't have a good energy drink (Cadence Marathon / USN Epic Pro (bleaargh)) I was dead by the end of the day.

 

This year I think I used four or five gels in total, and the rest was whatever I could pick up off the tables. Best thing? Bacon rolls on day three at the farmers association table!

 

Took 2.5hrs approx off our time last year too.

 

Tried the oats for breakfast but not sure if the eggs and bacon doesn't work better.

[DaleE]

....

Personally I made some changes for racing and results are positive. For training I have a coffee, grab bottle of water and go. If its a long ride I'll have Coke or similar during ride.

....

 

Yup, am aware that you've been tinkering with this for a while and certainly NOT suggesting that your way is wrong ... just trying to figure out the logic behind carbo loading.

I think I was trying to say something similar to the extract you posted - Cordain is just more eloquent - "recognition that the consumption of sugars and starches was necessary and useful only during exercise and in the post exercise period"

Edited May 19, 2014 by DaleE

[DaleE]

Another Sani done and dusted. Still amazed at the effect LC'ing has on my stage racing.

 

Well done. Did you notice the food at McKensie this year? Avos, olive oil, spinach salad, cold meats .... bacon and egg for breakfast .... perhaps the farmers are on the Banting bandwagon?

Also cream available at Jolivet breakfast

[DaleE]

Another Sani done and dusted. Still amazed at the effect LC'ing has on my stage racing.

 

Well done. Did you notice the food at McKensie this year? Avos, olive oil, spinach salad, cold meats .... bacon and egg for breakfast .... perhaps the farmers are on the Banting bandwagon?

Also cream available at Jolivet breakfast

[davetapson]

Well done. Did you notice the food at McKensie this year? Avos, olive oil, spinach salad, cold meats .... bacon and egg for breakfast .... perhaps the farmers are on the Banting bandwagon?

Also cream available at Jolivet breakfast

 

Yep, I did indeed!!

[jcza]

Yup, am aware that you've been tinkering with this for a while and certainly NOT suggesting that your way is wrong ... just trying to figure out the logic behind carbo loading.

I think I was trying to say something similar to the extract you posted - Cordain is just more eloquent - "recognition that the consumption of sugars and starches was necessary and useful only during exercise and in the post exercise period"

 

The experiment continues......

 

Well done Dave

[DaleE]

Nearly had another heart attack this morning

Thought I would try another n=1 experiment and needed some ketone test strips, so popped in at M-kem in Bellville to get some. I use the blood strips for the Xceed meter. For the last 2 years have always paid around R120-140 for a box of 10, so not cheap but bearable .... this morning they are priced at R429 for 10!! So, I enquired from the manager on duty if it might be a simple pricing mistake? ... get told "that's the right price, the supplier has put the prices up"

 

Supercharged inflation!! Seems Abbott health care has seen the recent interest in Banting / ketones and taken full advantage - bastards.

I use them for experiments, but can you imagine how pi$$ed the diabetics and folk who have to have them will be.

[Berg Man]

A quote from another forum on the same topic:

 

"My brother did Sani2C last week.

At 1 point he was in the medic tent and there was 14 guy's on drips.

A doctor at the tent ask all of them wich was on the Noaks diet.

12 out of 14...

 

What say the panel here?

Edited May 20, 2014 by Berg Man

[jcza]

A quote from another forum on the same topic:

 

"My brother did Sani2C last week.

At 1 point he was in the medic tent and there was 14 guy's on drips.

A doctor at the tent ask all of them wich was on the Noaks diet.

12 out of 14...

 

What say the panel here?

 

I would say that they probably bonked due to glycogen depletion. Something else that I have noticed is that guys don't appreciate how long the initial period of adaptation is. You probably need 6 months to figure out what works and what does not work. Add to this the fact that guys underestimate Sani. Get entry, go for a ride or 3 and pack the bike. LCHF will not make you fitter or faster, training will but LCHF will make you go longer on less.

[davetapson]

 

I would say that they probably bonked due to glycogen depletion. Something else that I have noticed is that guys don't appreciate how long the initial period of adaptation is. You probably need 6 months to figure out what works and what does not work. Add to this the fact that guys underestimate Sani. Get entry, go for a ride or 3 and pack the bike. LCHF will not make you fitter or faster, training will but LCHF will make you go longer on less.

What he said.

[DaleE]

I would say that they probably bonked due to glycogen depletion. Something else that I have noticed is that guys don't appreciate how long the initial period of adaptation is. You probably need 6 months to figure out what works and what does not work.

 

Yup, smart words.

Also I wonder how many riders at Sani are following some sort of Banting/Noakes/lchf diet .... my gut feel is that it's more than half, just based on conversations around the dinner tables each night. We had entry to the Nedbank hospitality tent and I noticed that there has been a distinct shift from beers to wine for many folk.

[DaleE]

..... l but LCHF will make you go longer on less.

 

I wonder if some folk are not trying to take this too far when it comes to hydration? While there have been plenty of anecdotal stories of people training for hours on very little water, I firmly believe that you can go longer on less food - when exercising aerobically - but you still need water. Perhaps not gallons and gallons, but hydration is critical.

Perhaps they just got the wrong message?

[jcza]

I wonder if some folk are not trying to take this too far when it comes to hydration? While there have been plenty of anecdotal stories of people training for hours on very little water, I firmly believe that you can go longer on less food - when exercising aerobically - but you still need water. Perhaps not gallons and gallons, but hydration is critical.

Perhaps they just got the wrong message?

 

Yip water is critical especially if you're eating solid food while riding to help with digestion. Obviously also to stay hydrated.

[davetapson]

 

Yip water is critical especially if you're eating solid food while riding to help with digestion. Obviously also to stay hydrated.

 

Just as a matter of interest I used about 1l water on day one, 2l water on day two plus let's say 1.5 full paper cups of coke per table i.e. drinking to thirst.

 

I'd consider this not much pre-adaption days when I used energy juice. In those days my consumption was pretty steady at 3l per 60km.

 

My suspicion is as JC commented - that the guys are mid adaption and suffering the misery that comes with it.

 

Conditions were pretty cool and you'd have had to go out of your way to dehydrate meaningfully.