Sailing

[Sepia]

depends, do you consider this to be sailing?

 

carabraai.png

Definitely!  Been known to partake in the sport myself!

There is a time for everything.

[Shebeen]

two posts, due to Admin's stupid 2006 era 2Mb image rule!

 

 

my dad has a 1/4 share in a 40ft boat, which we take for a weekly cruise round the cans during summer.

 

 

 

 

 

it's really crap part of the work week!

 

 

but you remind me, i need to update the website from a little regatta i instigated a few years back as it's coming up soon

 

https://africanamericascup.wordpress.com/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shebeen]

problem with the Moths locally/CT is that all the guys kept on klapping surface fish in our vleis. no one really sailing them regularly AFAIK.

Yip, 49er.  Would just love to sail that machine.

Done the building, done the pitch-polling, done the wave riding and still I would go back to the mono-hull.

Dabbies in the Durban Bay were a sight to behold.  Don't see them too much these days.

Nothing capsized easier than a Contender, nothing.  It had the same handicap as a Fireball but only had a main.  I used to sail in a wetsuit mid Summer.  Thing used to plane to windward and then I used to fall off.

I actually went to the dabbie 60 yr anniversary dinner last year. with so much else competing in the junior scene the class is still in good shape. even if all the new boats are glass now.

 

I actually think sailing in SA is not doing too badly all things considered.

pushing transformation is a huge issue,as obviously it's an elite sport and organically you're going to take forever. BUT loads has been done and we've brought the first (formerly) poor black kids to the Americas Cup over a decade ago. and this happened the other day too

http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/South-Africa/historic-moment-for-sa-sailing-duo-20170710

 

 

 

 

BUT, what i do see as a huge boon is our new team sailing league.

they've just had 28...yes TWENTY EIGHT of these purpose designed team racing boats launched 2 months ago. Team racing is awesome, and will probably see me back on a dinghy sooner rather than later!

 

http://sailing.co.za/team-sailing-league-huge-success/

http://sailing.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/TSL-by-Hamilton-Slater-768x455.jpg

[@ndy]

http://sailing.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/TSL-by-Hamilton-Slater-768x455.jpg

 

These team racing boats irritate me a bit. Why invest so much in yet another fleet which has no global representation. These modified 420's could have simply been 420's. They could have been used to get the current younger generation of sailors racing in all formats not just team racing. Many people team race in 420's, you just take the kite and trapeze off and you're away. Lighter kids OK maybe get a smaller main (but team racing being a bit complex is not usually thought of as a young kids discipline).

 

There seems to be a desire to re invent all the time here, and although SA have come up with some good designs especially for the local conditions. Surely with such a small sailing community surely inclusiveness should be a priority so I feel this was an opportunity missed. Team racing is great fun and creates tactically astute sailors SA could still have had that without the modifications and then have a fleet of + 30 boats a the 420 nationals. This investment seems like a lot of money which could have been better spent.

[Sepia]

http://sailing.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/TSL-by-Hamilton-Slater-768x455.jpg

 

These team racing boats irritate me a bit. Why invest so much in yet another fleet which has no global representation. These modified 420's could have simply been 420's. They could have been used to get the current younger generation of sailors racing in all formats not just team racing. Many people team race in 420's, you just take the kite and trapeze off and you're away. Lighter kids OK maybe get a smaller main (but team racing being a bit complex is not usually thought of as a young kids discipline).

 

There seems to be a desire to re invent all the time here, and although SA have come up with some good designs especially for the local conditions. Surely with such a small sailing community surely inclusiveness should be a priority so I feel this was an opportunity missed. Team racing is great fun and creates tactically astute sailors SA could still have had that without the modifications and then have a fleet of + 30 boats a the 420 nationals. This investment seems like a lot of money which could have been better spent.

Certainly a valid point.  There is no stopping development.

Why I chose the RCLaser................

 

Hat, coat, door.

[Shebeen]

http://sailing.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/TSL-by-Hamilton-Slater-768x455.jpg

 

These team racing boats irritate me a bit. Why invest so much in yet another fleet which has no global representation. These modified 420's could have simply been 420's. They could have been used to get the current younger generation of sailors racing in all formats not just team racing. Many people team race in 420's, you just take the kite and trapeze off and you're away. Lighter kids OK maybe get a smaller main (but team racing being a bit complex is not usually thought of as a young kids discipline).

 

There seems to be a desire to re invent all the time here, and although SA have come up with some good designs especially for the local conditions. Surely with such a small sailing community surely inclusiveness should be a priority so I feel this was an opportunity missed. Team racing is great fun and creates tactically astute sailors SA could still have had that without the modifications and then have a fleet of + 30 boats a the 420 nationals. This investment seems like a lot of money which could have been better spent.

I totally agree. but can these boats not be sailed at a 420 regatta as well anyway?

 

I don't really sail dinghies currently, so don't really have a vote - will maybe join the scene again once my kids get a bit older - BUT it is very surprising to see how many classes are active. You get about 10 classes of 5 boats. Those 50 dinghies would have much better racing in 3/4 classes of average 15-20 fleets.

 

Approaching a religious level topic now, but I also think that way way too much emphasis is spent on sending youth overseas. The big gap is the 20/30 year olds where hardly anyone sails. Plenty of oppie hot shots who have loads of time and money invested in them and now do other things.  like mtb riding

[Paddaman]

Why do we constantly invest in new classes of boats.  In South Africa we have had a full range of South African designed boats that could fulfill the purposes of each manifestation of the sport.

 

We have the dabchick as a youth development boat, which can be sailed as one up (competition) and two up for training,

 

We have the Sprog and Sonnet for club racing and team racing

 

We HAD the spearhead which was a very fast and competent trapeze boat with a spinnaker (some say faster than a fireball)

 

We have the dolphin for inland waters (used successfully for team racing for the last three years in NorthVaal).

 

The two gaps, being early development and singlehanded dinghies are closed down by the Optimist and the Finn/Laser classes

 

Added to that is a raft of keel boats like the mistral ext 

 

There should not be a reason for SAS to source designs and boats from international suppliers when throughout RSA history he have had many solid designs which talk to local conditions.

[@ndy]

I totally agree. but can these boats not be sailed at a 420 regatta as well anyway?

 

I don't really sail dinghies currently, so don't really have a vote - will maybe join the scene again once my kids get a bit older - BUT it is very surprising to see how many classes are active. You get about 10 classes of 5 boats. Those 50 dinghies would have much better racing in 3/4 classes of average 15-20 fleets.

 

Approaching a religious level topic now, but I also think that way way too much emphasis is spent on sending youth overseas. The big gap is the 20/30 year olds where hardly anyone sails. Plenty of oppie hot shots who have loads of time and money invested in them and now do other things.  like mtb riding

 

I also don't sail dinghies anymore but A friends son is currently moving out of oppies and along with his friends would be keen to buy some 420's and it would help if there are more racing regularly. These boats have been totally re rigged so yes they could be rigged as 420's but at a high cost. I even heard that the people behind this decided to use a different rudder because they considered it would perform better. If those boats were kept original and made available at any level especially the development groups to bolster a fleet something really good may have come out of the current sailing youth. Instead its team racing only for these boats and the small group of youngsters I know of will probably disperse in the various fleets, (or MTB).

[@ndy]

Why do we constantly invest in new classes of boats.  In South Africa we have had a full range of South African designed boats that could fulfill the purposes of each manifestation of the sport.

 

We have the dabchick as a youth development boat, which can be sailed as one up (competition) and two up for training,

 

We have the Sprog and Sonnet for club racing and team racing

 

We HAD the spearhead which was a very fast and competent trapeze boat with a spinnaker (some say faster than a fireball)

 

We have the dolphin for inland waters (used successfully for team racing for the last three years in NorthVaal).

 

The two gaps, being early development and singlehanded dinghies are closed down by the Optimist and the Finn/Laser classes

 

Added to that is a raft of keel boats like the mistral ext 

 

There should not be a reason for SAS to source designs and boats from international suppliers when throughout RSA history he have had many solid designs which talk to local conditions.

I definitely agree, the money could have been used to promote the other of the classes you mention for team racing. 

 

The 420 does have a local fleet albeit a bit small and European second hand dinghies are very good value. Seeing as its an feeder class for the 470 I would have thought its in SA sailings interest to have a strong fleet.

[Paddaman]

I also don't sail dinghies anymore but A friends son is currently moving out of oppies and along with his friends would be keen to buy some 420's and it would help if there are more racing regularly. These boats have been totally re rigged so yes they could be rigged as 420's but at a high cost. I even heard that the people behind this decided to use a different rudder because they considered it would perform better. If those boats were kept original and made available at any level especially the development groups to bolster a fleet something really good may have come out of the current sailing youth. Instead its team racing only for these boats and the small group of youngsters I know of will probably disperse in the various fleets, (or MTB).

A lot of this could be avoided if there was a proper progression strategy from Oppies, to say dabbies then onto lasers/Finn or sonnets/dolphin/505.  I am not sure whether the 420/470 is even necessary as a stepping stone to 505.

 

It seems SAS is unwilling to come out and "favour"  a set of classes for this progression, but then in the same breath there is an entire fleet of a "new" class purchased (in the Cape only)  instead of supporting an already established class.  This also undermines boat building in South Africa....

Edited November 6, 2017 by Paddaman

[broncoza]

Lets face it Paddaman this is an age old gripe;why not develop the local classes; noooo. it never worked because clubs specifically punted a class or group of classes and frowned upon any O Class enterants rather than encouraging them to build numbers they encouraged them to buy a boat in one of the club classes. Bottom line is that sailing, and don't get me wrong I have been sailing and racing at various levels for the last 45 yrs, has reaped the "benefit" of yacht clubs stupidity over the years. The sport has been killed, instead of having a sport where the barrier to entry was only the cost of a locally produced competitive boat we now have a situation where to be competitive you have to shell out more than a small car for a dinghy! R250 000 may get you a second hand competitive Finn, similarily for a 505. Ridiculous when you think that at current production costs a Spearhead would probably cost no more than a middle of the range carbon bicycle!

[Paddaman]

Lets face it Paddaman this is an age old gripe;why not develop the local classes; noooo. it never worked because clubs specifically punted a class or group of classes and frowned upon any O Class enterants rather than encouraging them to build numbers they encouraged them to buy a boat in one of the club classes. Bottom line is that sailing, and don't get me wrong I have been sailing and racing at various levels for the last 45 yrs, has reaped the "benefit" of yacht clubs stupidity over the years. The sport has been killed, instead of having a sport where the barrier to entry was only the cost of a locally produced competitive boat we now have a situation where to be competitive you have to shell out more than a small car for a dinghy! R250 000 may get you a second hand competitive Finn, similarily for a 505. Ridiculous when you think that at current production costs a Spearhead would probably cost no more than a middle of the range carbon bicycle!

At this stage at the Pretoria Sailing Club, we have a large fleet of finns and dolphins.  The Finns range from Finn No 5 all the way up to the latest Pata Finn and even a Devoti Finn from Europe.  (why we are strong in finns is a long and complicated story which involves the demise of sailing at President's dam in Springs and scrap metal theft in Germiston) We attempt as far as possible to keep the boats in the club.  New members are encouraged to buy up boats from old members, and we "recycle" the hulls in this way.  This allows us to both keep the two classes alive and strong and to provide beginners with inexpensive boats and chances to upgrade as they get better, financially stronger or as better boats become available. 

However, we also have a large number of lasers, GP14, Enterprises, mirrors, 505 and FD.

Our numbers of sprogs, spearheads, fireballs, sonnets and laser II have fallen off.  Our biggest challenge is to get the smaller fleets onto the water.  It seems that as soon as a class falls below 5  active crews then the chances of recovery are limited.

[Sepia]

Nice system you have there Paddaman.

Consistent class racing is a rarity these days.

Envious of the sailing fun which can be had at your club.

I did sail there 30yrs ago and there was some competitive stuff happening then.

Nice.?

[Pants Boy]

I've now sailed Halcats (14 foot)  on Bronkies and Vaal, Hobie 14 on Bronkies, Hobie 16 on Bronkies and Vaal as well as a magnificent (albeit slightly unloved) Hobie Tiger on the Vaal in 20 knot winds with mega gusts. Toight like a Toiger ... jeeeeez that thing just goes like the clappers. Her owner hasn't sailed her in many years but loans her out to a select few Voortrekkers (me not yet included, I sneaked a run on her in March during a camp)

 

The Halcats were OK - I've never had great fun on them, but also never had them in wind over 6 knots. The Hobie 14 is way too small for me - I've turned into a fat bastard since trading cycling for my second job, weighing in somewhere in the 90's. The 16 is fun - I've solo'd one (and pitch-poled it - self-recovered due to the ball on the mast) and had the wife screaming on it  on another occasion("Stadiger!" NEE! STADIGER!!!" lol) and really like it. It's not too big to handle on your own, spares seem plenty and inexpensive(ish)

 

I've got a while to decide yet ... maybe I'll try and find a few more boats to play with before then.

[Ed-Zulu]

I've now sailed Halcats (14 foot)  on Bronkies and Vaal, Hobie 14 on Bronkies, Hobie 16 on Bronkies and Vaal as well as a magnificent (albeit slightly unloved) Hobie Tiger on the Vaal in 20 knot winds with mega gusts. Toight like a Toiger ... jeeeeez that thing just goes like the clappers. Her owner hasn't sailed her in many years but loans her out to a select few Voortrekkers (me not yet included, I sneaked a run on her in March during a camp)

 

The Halcats were OK - I've never had great fun on them, but also never had them in wind over 6 knots. The Hobie 14 is way too small for me - I've turned into a fat bastard since trading cycling for my second job, weighing in somewhere in the 90's. The 16 is fun - I've solo'd one (and pitch-poled it - self-recovered due to the ball on the mast) and had the wife screaming on it  on another occasion("Stadiger!" NEE! STADIGER!!!" lol) and really like it. It's not too big to handle on your own, spares seem plenty and inexpensive(ish)

 

I've got a while to decide yet ... maybe I'll try and find a few more boats to play with before then.

Laser 2

Gypsy

Two up mono's and can be singled in lighter winds

[Paddaman]

Laser 2

Gypsy

Two up mono's and can be singled in lighter winds

The gypsy is unfortunately one of the few South African boats that just did not make it.  It has had a number of design flaws, especially the centreboard casing and the cheap wooden centreboard that tends to break when jibbing.  Also it only really starts moving in a 20 knot wind, as It was originally conceived as a family cruiser and not as a racing boat.  As some-one said "it takes a special kind of sailor to capsize a gypsy."

 

You can also consider a dolphin, enterprise, GP 14 and mirror, if you are looking for a family boat.

 

If you want a real challenge there is always the sprog.........(many teenagers have learnt how to swim sailing these....)