Peer comparison: Anonymous salary poll

[SwissVan]

My favorite salary / wage comparison when these kind of arguments pop up is probably not relevant to any of us on the hub

 

Worker (poorly paid) - For example the miner who risks his life deep underground to get commodity X from the earth back upstairs.

 

Worker (overpaid) - For example the commodity broker who sells or deals with commodity X

 

Explain the justice in that..

 

Rant over, back to slave pit for me

[JGR]

i used you as a generic term, not referring to you personally. and an accountant's job as important as an ER doctor? if you say so.

oh and relax, it's almost friday.

A generic term for two unrelated things? how interesting.

 

Let me also enlighten you - finance is not limited to accountants. Accountants do not earn huge money - perhaps a CFO/FD. You know the guy that fiscally resposible for 1000's of people in some cases and of course their families financial well being.

 

To use you example of two extremes - I can see how much more helpful a traditional sangoma is than a financial director - so its your view they should get equal?

 

Also Doctors are hardly scrapping the barrel ... even the public sector ones.

 

As for teachers - I can see how someone helping kids to paints and not eat crayons should eanring millions. If they reached the top of their game - academia and were professors ect they would also earn a lot more. Just like when you compare a clerk with an FD

 

You right it is nearly Friday so it gives you a day and half to start use your brain before the weekend

[Kranswurm]

amazing how much you get paid for pushing pieces of paper around, when the people who do the real (and important) work, like engineers, nurses, teachers, public sector doctors, etc get peanuts.

Don't confuse the public sector with the private sector.......my Engineers get paid well

[JGR]

My favorite salary / wage comparison when these kind of arguments pop up is probably not relevant to any of us on the hub

 

Worker (poorly paid) - For example the miner who risks his life deep underground to get commodity X from the earth back upstairs.

 

Worker (overpaid) - For example the commodity broker who sells or deals with commodity X

 

Explain the justice in that..

 

Rant over, back to slave pit for me

Anyone can be the worker and only a few can be the broker

 

People will be renumerated on the level of their skill and the abundance thereof.

 

PA = lots available. Actuary = very few

 

Also the suggestion that the broker doesnt work hard is also false unless hard work is only characterised by manual labour and sweat? At 5pm the worker goes home without a worry, the broker goes home with stress and anxiety about what is going to happen.

 

just my 2c

[DJ84]

My favorite salary / wage comparison when these kind of arguments pop up is probably not relevant to any of us on the hub

 

Worker (poorly paid) - For example the miner who risks his life deep underground to get commodity X from the earth back upstairs.

 

Worker (overpaid) - For example the commodity broker who sells or deals with commodity X

 

Explain the justice in that..

 

Rant over, back to slave pit for me

 

You also have to base a persons salary on what he/she can do for the company.

Im one of the so called paper pushers who gets paid too much,

Not in my opinion or my managements at all.

 

I work 50-60 hours a week and what I get paid in a month I save the company more than double based on my knowledge.

I also still get round to assisting in making the business run a lot smoother.

 

Our 2 000 labourers are paid low which I agree is not great,

but if you base it on what they do and how much they make for the company, it isn't a big difference in percentage to how my salary works and they don't carry any of the stress involved in running/managing a company.

[MTBeer]

Don't confuse the public sector with the private sector.......my Engineers get paid well

sure engineers get paid well. but compare the salary of an experienced top engineer to a chartered accountant of similar experience or even worse to a stock broker. and that engineer makes a mistake and people could end up dead.

[JGR]

sure engineers get paid well. but compare the salary of an experienced top engineer to a chartered accountant of similar experience or even worse to a stock broker. and that engineer makes a mistake and people could end up dead.

So which is it? You said they get paid badly a few posts ago - your opinion is not accurate so at least have the balls to stick with it.

 

Let me educate you a little further ... Chartered Accountant is non a job title .. its a qualification. It is not purely an accounting qualification but a business degree which opens many many doors. Its requires 5 years of academic studies and three years of articles in which you earn about as much as you do working at a video store.

 

Some go on to earn a lot of money but not all, entry level pay for CA's is about R30k after 5 years studies and 3 years work expereince. You think that unfair?

 

An engineer worth their salt with 3 years expereince would also be earning a similar amount.

 

Where are you getting your facts? Mine come from 100's of CV and payslip which I have physically seen

 

As for stock brokers .... they dont earn millions either ... majority of their money is commission driven which means what they put in is what they get out ... so if they are earning a good salary it is indicitive of the effort they have put in - like most sales jobs.

 

When a bus driver makes a mistake people are also dead so by your logic they should earn how much exactly?

[Captain K'nuckles]

sure engineers get paid well. but compare the salary of an experienced top engineer to a chartered accountant of similar experience or even worse to a stock broker. and that engineer makes a mistake and people could end up dead.

 

I know a couple of engineers whose income will make your eyeballs water. On the flipside I know some CA's that earn quite a low salary.

 

Also, keep in mind that you can't blindly refer to someone as a CA, implying that they are accountants. The implication of someone being a CA is just that they are someone that is highly financially literate, not necessarily someone that practices accounting. Many CA's move on from accounting and are much more active in creating businesses. As an indication, look at the composition of directors on the JSE. The most representative profession there is CA's, indicating that these guys create employment for millions. Compare that to an engineer somewhere that doesn't create any jobs, but perhaps will save some lives by doing something correctly.

 

You can't blindly compare the professions as they aren't measured against the same benchmark.

[MTBeer]

I know a couple of engineers whose income will make your eyeballs water. On the flipside I know some CA's that earn quite a low salary.

 

Also, keep in mind that you can't blindly refer to someone as a CA, implying that they are accountants. The implication of someone being a CA is just that they are someone that is highly financially literate, not necessarily someone that practices accounting. Many CA's move on from accounting and are much more active in creating businesses. As an indication, look at the composition of directors on the JSE. The most representative profession there is CA's, indicating that these guys create employment for millions. Compare that to an engineer somewhere that doesn't create any jobs, but perhaps will save some lives by doing something correctly.

 

You can't blindly compare the professions as they aren't measured against the same benchmark.

ja, ok, i get it.

[MTBeer]

So which is it? You said they get paid badly a few posts ago - your opinion is not accurate so at least have the balls to stick with it.

 

Let me educate you a little further ... Chartered Accountant is non a job title .. its a qualification. It is not purely an accounting qualification but a business degree which opens many many doors. Its requires 5 years of academic studies and three years of articles in which you earn about as much as you do working at a video store.

 

Some go on to earn a lot of money but not all, entry level pay for CA's is about R30k after 5 years studies and 3 years work expereince. You think that unfair?

 

An engineer worth their salt with 3 years expereince would also be earning a similar amount.

 

Where are you getting your facts? Mine come from 100's of CV and payslip which I have physically seen

 

As for stock brokers .... they dont earn millions either ... majority of their money is commission driven which means what they put in is what they get out ... so if they are earning a good salary it is indicitive of the effort they have put in - like most sales jobs.

 

When a bus driver makes a mistake people are also dead so by your logic they should earn how much exactly?

you really must relax.

[Kranswurm]

sure engineers get paid well. but compare the salary of an experienced top engineer to a chartered accountant of similar experience or even worse to a stock broker. and that engineer makes a mistake and people could end up dead.

 

If a stock broker or FA makes a mistake it sometimes ends in death as well...suicide

 

Not sure if you have any idea of what people earn

[SwissVan]

Anyone can be the worker and only a few can be the broker

 

People will be renumerated on the level of their skill and the abundance thereof.

 

PA = lots available. Actuary = very few

 

Also the suggestion that the broker doesnt work hard is also false unless hard work is only characterised by manual labour and sweat? At 5pm the worker goes home without a worry, the broker goes home with stress and anxiety about what is going to happen.

 

just my 2c

 

I doubt that anyone can be a worker as referenced in my example (miner at the rock face).

Why is it that only a few can be brokers, what's so special about them?

I'm sure the rock face worker feels the same about the broker i.e. being unable to do the rock face type work.

 

I've seen a few "office types" who have tried to be "blue collar" workers and they cannot do it and end up moving into the management (higher pay) role after a few years, just like I've seen blue collar types move into management and they don't cut it either.

 

I'm not suggesting brokers don't have stress or don't work hard, I know a few and know what kind of stress and lifestyle they have.

 

Sometimes the rock face worker doesn't make it home alive, and I reacon he stresses about the dangers he has to face every day and how he is gong to make ends meet / support his family.

Stress is stress and does not discriminate.

 

How many brokers die or have been injured / disabled as a direct result of their profession?

 

EDIT: Broker as in commodity broker not stock broker

 

 

You also have to base a persons salary on what he/she can do for the company.

Im one of the so called paper pushers who gets paid too much,

Not in my opinion or my managements at all.

 

I work 50-60 hours a week and what I get paid in a month I save the company more than double based on my knowledge.

I also still get round to assisting in making the business run a lot smoother.

 

Our 2 000 labourers are paid low which I agree is not great,

but if you base it on what they do and how much they make for the company, it isn't a big difference in percentage to how my salary works and they don't carry any of the stress involved in running/managing a company.

 

I understand and agree with what your saying in principal and I'm not saying that workers in your kind of position should not be paid better than the average laborer.

 

I'm referring more to the size of the gap between the "paper pusher" and laborer, in some cases (depending on the industry) the gap is huge, as in my example of the commodity broker and miner.

Edited June 27, 2013 by SwissVan

[MTBeer]

If a stock broker or FA makes a mistake it sometimes ends in death as well...suicide

 

Not sure if you have any idea of what people earn

educate me. top of the range engineer (say civil) vs top of the range stock broker?

 

not talking directors of companies/ ceo's. just employees. please include performance bonus.

[igknot]

Life is not fair.

 

Teachers look after our most precious and gets paid a pittance. Nurses too

 

Traders and bankers like my self add no value to the total we only shift it to the already wealthy, but we are well paid. Lawyers make money out of others problem and human dishonesty

 

Life will never be fair.

[hayleyearth]

Salary isnt black and white.

There are just SO many factors and sometimes it even just comes down to personality.

What I mean is 2 people, same sex with the same degree with the same amount of years worked will not always get the same salary at the same company.

 

Sometimes it is also just about LUCK.

 

I think also these days if you want to make salary jumps you have to change companies more regularly. Also location is important.

 

I can simply use my own story:

- I have an engineering degree

- 4 years work experience in the engineering world (nothing before that)

- I made a company and sector change 1 year ago

- I made a location change (PE to JHB) 1 year ago

- when I started working in 2008 my monthly CTC was about the amount of tax I now pay per month

 

Compare to my dad:

- he does not have a degree

- he has been working for the same company since he left school (38 years)

- company is in PE (automotive)

- he is on management level in this company

- his CTC is about 80% of mine

(they dont care about their employees even though they expect them to make their work their life)

 

Clearly there is NO specific standard than everyone can be rated at.

There are just too many variables. Many of which are in your own hands though! (I believe)

[SwissVan]

Life is not fair.

 

Teachers look after our most precious and gets paid a pittance. Nurses too

 

Traders and bankers like my self add no value to the total we only shift it to the already wealthy, but we are well paid. Lawyers make money out of others problem and human dishonesty

 

Life will never be fair.

 

At last someone who see's it from my perspective