Active Monkey Posted January 11, 2014 Share My knee has started paining after long rides. Mostly climbing. But its as if its the knee cap, but only left knee an only the front right hand side of the left knee ( inside) Its not overuse as im fit and have done simkilar ride before. What has changed wasNew cleats , tried to minic previous ones position Saddle height might have changed slightly My best educated guess is that i have to raise my saddle about 0.5 cm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted January 11, 2014 Share My knee has started paining after long rides. Mostly climbing. But its as if its the knee cap, but only left knee an only the front right hand side of the left knee ( inside) Its not overuse as im fit and have done simkilar ride before. What has changed wasNew cleats , tried to minic previous ones position Saddle height might have changed slightly My best educated guess is that i have to raise my saddle about 0.5 cm? Look VERY carefully at your cleat position - it's most likely twisting your foot a little and thereby your knee during the pedal stroke - you have to find the neutral spot that your foot naturally positions itself in - takes a while sometimes...... Cellar, Active Monkey and seven 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sworks20 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Oh V12 you and your "technical" knowledge make me laugh. Anyway JacueZA this is a common injury due to a few factors: Often with some time off the bike and you come back and push to big of a gear this injury often occurs and often light spinning with a light gear cures this.Also with a rear and forefoot varus coupled with seat height being to high. I would like to suggest you insert 1 x 1.5mm wedge on the inside of your shoe under the sole or drop your saddle by .5 to not over extend your knee and have the ligaments / tendons rub against the bone causing inflammation and pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonF_ Posted January 11, 2014 Share I had exactly the same problem and fixed it about two weeks ago when I read up on the "duck footed or pigeon toed" style of walking. I realised I walk slightly duck footed and the cleat position was too straight mounted on my shoe, I turned the front end of the cleat a bit inward so that the shoe point a bit outward when pedalling, or heel slightly inward which ever way you want to look at it, and whala! No knee pain at all! After 3 years riding with this niggle, and I always thought it was an old knee injury or something. Active Monkey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted January 11, 2014 Share Oh V12 you and your "technical" knowledge make me laugh. Anyway JacueZA this is a common injury due to a few factors: Often with some time off the bike and you come back and push to big of a gear this injury often occurs and often light spinning with a light gear cures this.Also with a rear and forefoot varus coupled with seat height being to high. I would like to suggest you insert 1 x 1.5mm wedge on the inside of your shoe under the sole or drop your saddle by .5 to not over extend your knee and have the ligaments / tendons rub against the bone causing inflammation and pain. Glad to make your day.... do me a favour and put me on your ignore list. Lexx, Loose cog, ruib and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surv0MTB Posted January 11, 2014 Share Sounds like you had what I had. PFPS (Patella Femoral Pain syndrome) My issue was that my bike setup was wrong (this is the majority of causes). My saddle was too low and too far forward, and the knee was extended past the toe when pushing down. Climbing stairs, climbing hills, going down stairs, squats would all result in a sharp pain on the inside of the knee. Physio pointed out that my VMO muscle was activating after my VLO. The VMO being the stabaliser and without that working properly, the knee cap cant move correctly and ends up rubbing against the femor. Have a bike setup done, and if possible see a physio. I no longer have any pain, and it lasted a good few months. Edit: my cleat position was also wrong which definitely made the issue worse. Edited January 11, 2014 by Surv0MTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonF_ Posted January 11, 2014 Share Glad to make your day.... do me a favour and put me on your ignore list. Must be the "SWorks syndrome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seven Posted January 11, 2014 Share Excuse my lack of ‘technical knowledge’ but…I cannot see how a combination of forefoot and rearfoot varus would cause this, or how a 1.5mm lift would make any difference. Are you saying it should be a medial (inside of the foot only) lift, not the entire foot? Surely the body (leg) can compensate enough to make up the 1.5mm, especially in cycling? Would this not be linked more to tibial torsion than simply varus/valgus?I agree that slight overextension of the knee (or excessively deep flexion as in Surv0MTB’s case) could aggravate this.If there is no previous history of this I would follow V12 and check cleat position again. Most cyclists could do with a little toeing-out, but tend to set their cleats up so the feet run parallel to the crank arm. I would also drop the seat a bit, and try to minimise grinding the big gears/hills for a while.Even though VMO/VL may be an issue, it tends to start with the knee collapsing to the inside during the power stroke. Even though this is sometimes linked to a more ‘aero’ position, it is generally not very good for knee function.As a last thought, do you have the same amount of float on your new cleats as the old ones? With new cleats (even if it’s the exact same model as old set), it send to be more stiff once clipped in, allowing less float. Alignment is perhaps more important with new cleats than older worn ones.No expert, just some thoughts. Active Monkey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR ◣◢ Posted January 11, 2014 Share So... Only things that changed... New cleats. Suddenly advice is given on shims and this and that. So, is it only me, seven and V12 that sees the real problem? Adjust the cleats until you get back the where you were before. Edited January 11, 2014 by Maxxis V12man and seven 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seven Posted January 11, 2014 Share Agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerus Posted January 11, 2014 Share So... Only things that changed... New cleats. Suddenly advice is given on shims and this and that. So, is it only me, seven and V12 that sees the real problem? Adjust the cleats until you get back the where you were before.Agreed and check saddle height Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaisikilist Posted January 11, 2014 Share Oh Sworks20, you and your inability to spell the OP's name correctly make those of us with more than a single digit IQ laugh. From your medical expertise it sounds like you and V12 may have studied at different schools together.Or not... DR ◣◢ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkysa Posted January 11, 2014 Share Had the same issue last year, it's your clear position. Get hold of Spook Groenewalt he has a wonderful bike set up tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malpiet Posted January 11, 2014 Share Are you using the same cleat with the correct float as before? I had a similar problem rode with the 0-degree float cleats and had endless niggles, I then changed to 5 or 6.5 degree float for a little more give and since then no issues @all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted January 11, 2014 Share Oh Sworks20, you and your inability to spell the OP's name correctly make those of us with more than a single digit IQ laugh.From your medical expertise it sounds like you and V12 may have studied at different schools together.Or not... Not - I was at Stellenbosch undergrad, and UCT, UTA and Henley post grad.... Sworks's solution may well be able to compensate for having incorrectly positioned cleats, and definately some people require them to achieve optimal foot positioning - but the basic fact of changing cleats and then developing knee pain generally (80/20) means the cleats went back on differently in some way - mtb cleats are such a bugger to get aligned properly - and once you have it they want to slip when you tighten them.... spent 2 hours doing it with my brother on 2 sets of shoes after Christmas... a right pain in the butt.... and then we decided the one set is too small, so I guess we will be doing it again for him soon as the new shoes arrive... and we get to be in the same town at the same time again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Potgieter Posted January 12, 2014 Share Not - I was at Stellenbosch undergrad, and UCT, UTA and Henley post grad.... Sworks's solution may well be able to compensate for having incorrectly positioned cleats, and definately some people require them to achieve optimal foot positioning - but the basic fact of changing cleats and then developing knee pain generally (80/20) means the cleats went back on differently in some way - mtb cleats are such a bugger to get aligned properly - and once you have it they want to slip when you tighten them.... spent 2 hours doing it with my brother on 2 sets of shoes after Christmas... a right pain in the butt.... and then we decided the one set is too small, so I guess we will be doing it again for him soon as the new shoes arrive... and we get to be in the same town at the same time again...dude...its clear you are wrong. If he had no issues before...and then changed cleats only. And now he has knee pain, how dare you even imply it could be the cleats. I know the solution...it obviously is caused by using the incorrect chain lube. Some people.... LongDonkey, Stumpmeister and V12man 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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