Cape Town Cycle Tour New Tandem Seeding & Safety - Is it fair?

[janneman72]

I would just like to find out the general feeling of the racing tandems who is doing the Argus, I would like to split my question into 2 parts.

 

1.) We normally ride racing tandems with the Argus, seeded in # and did just over 3 hours with 3 minutes or so and under the top 20 tandems overall. Now we have been seeded in 1C but some of our tandem friends who is behind us with 4 minutes on the previous Argus and 10+ minutes on the 94.7 has been seeded in #, yes, some of them has been seeded in 1F, 1G etc as well but they only used our 94.7 seeding. Our seeding index is 15.

 

Mark my words what is going to happen this year, the Elite tandems(the elite women and men who decided to ride tandem this year and yes, there are a lot of them who is SA, World champs, Elites etc this year as well as your Andrew Mcleans etc) will break at latest at Smithswinkel and will ride around 7-10 minutes out of the rest of the # tandems, 80% of the remainder of the "racing" tandems will remain together most of the race but according to the seeding the tandems in 1C-1F will have much more risk to crash and most certainly will and if we're lucky to survive, those tandems will have a better time than 50% of the # tandems. But the risk is not worth it to us. In an ideal world they should have Elite, (Old school)Racing and social tandems.Those tandem who then decide to fall back to single groups at their own perusal is then more than welcome to do so. How did they think this through?

 

2.) Argus tandem safety with single bikes. A tandem takes twice the distance to stop than a single bike(double the weight and more or less the same contact area to the tar as a single bike), the apex around corners especially down Chapman's peak is way different and it handles/maneuver much different as well. After Smiths winkel if a single bike would go down at 50,60,70kmh there is no way that a tandem will be able to stop in time, it also takes much more effort & time to swerve out. The captain will normally be okay after an accident on a tandem but I know of various stokers that must first fall on and over the front part of the tandem before even hitting the ground, here I'm talking about coma's, a lot of broken bones, serious hospital situations. I've seen it before and if the good tandems start with single bikes there is a very real & serious danger to it. Hence the reason so many tandem entries becoming available now.Will the organizers first have to see tandem riders to get hurt before changing it back to the racing tandem and social tandem groups which worked well in the past for so many years? It's just crazy and clearly the organizers have never ridden a tandem before. 

[milky4130]

Started in racing Tandem group last year, only my 2nd ever Tandem ride, finished 5th btw. There was a crash behind us, coming down the wynberg hill into the blue route straight, the non-racing tandems should be separated from the racing tandems.

[janneman72]

Started in racing Tandem group last year, only my 2nd ever Tandem ride, finished 5th btw. There was a crash behind us, coming down the wynberg hill into the blue route straight, the non-racing tandems should be separated from the racing tandems.

I agree with you but it's not really answering the question. How can much slower tandems be seeded before us which increases the risk as you describe and why didn't they make 2 groups, racing tandems(perhaps smaller then) and seeded the rest of the tandems together in a social group. Now all the tandems are spreadout over the whole field making an even bigger risk for everybody.

[Cat2forLife]

I think tandems mixed with regular bikes is quite dangerous. Noticed this on Sunday when our group caught a couple of tandems. They took up quite a lot of space on the road and then decided to try sit in the middle of the bunch, just causing chaos.

[eddy]

How can much slower tandems be seeded before us

Because seeding 35 000 riders is never going to be an exact science.

[GLuvsMtb]

My tandem partner and I are of those who for a few years now used the loophole to get a nice early start. We never have intentions or aspirations for a fast time and we only ride tandem on the lead up to and during the Argus. Looking back on it, the worst part was always the faster wannbe-race-snakes that are reckless in the first 30 km. Thankfully by the time we've stopped in Simonstown most of them would have passed and you end up being left with the guys looking for a solid sub 4 ride, who encourage you up the hills and sit slip on the flats. I have always found the bulk of the more social riders to be quite accommodating giving us enough road to ride safely on. While we may lose 10 to 15 minutes this year by starting a bit later, I actually think that for the bulk of the tandem riders the new seeding may prove to be safer. 

[Paul Ruinaard]

Hmm - I am a very Sociable tandem rider so I cant really say much now, but i did race tandems in the past.

 

This is like saying that racing is dangerous, and whilst the organisers can change the rules in any given race, its still dangerous. There will always be a winner based on the current rules which will be someone who is willing to take the risks.

 

I used to thrive on these situations cause I would always be willing to take the risks, and sometimes benefitted from it.

 

So less tandem entries equals more chance of finishing higher.

 

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

What i dont understand though and maybe this bears asking is why they changed the tandem seedings at all. I have seen this done in the past once before where sociable tandems were in the groups rather than on their own at the Argus.

 

What was the rationale, or wasn't there any ?

[Marius]

[Long Wheel Base]

I knew this topic would come up. When I heard a while ago they planned on only have 30 tandems in # group this year I knew there would be issues. I race tandems as well as VA and the chance of a crash is just as high in both groups BUT when you add a tandem with a whole lot of singles the danger increases a lot. Like the OP says tandem riding is a lot different to single riding(notice I said riding and not racing as the racing is just as hard). I ride captain on my tandem and as i'v done a fair amount of licensed riding i'm a little bit more aware of what the guys are prone to do but its still hair raising when we mix with singles. Its also the same for the single guys, When you approach a nice fast section and a tandem comes by its a fight to get onto their wheel. So I think a racing tandem group and then maybe 2 or 3 social tandem groups split over the field.

I'm lucky enough to have made racing tandems(my index is 10.2 and my stoker slightly more) but friends of ours where stuck a few groups down and are now considering rather riding singles because of the danger.

[GoLefty!!]

I think mixing tandems with singles is as bad as a swingers club. There's always an accident waiting to happen.

 

Dunno what's up with all the seeding changes. They seem to be he'll bent on rewarding people who participate in the seeding events more than seeding people with similar ability

[carbon29er]

I would just like to find out the general feeling of the racing tandems who is doing the Argus, I would like to split my question into 2 parts.

 

1.) We normally ride racing tandems with the Argus, seeded in # and did just over 3 hours with 3 minutes or so and under the top 20 tandems overall. Now we have been seeded in 1C but some of our tandem friends who is behind us with 4 minutes on the previous Argus and 10+ minutes on the 94.7 has been seeded in #, yes, some of them has been seeded in 1F, 1G etc as well but they only used our 94.7 seeding. Our seeding index is 15.

 

 

Looks like there is going to be a highspeed chase down the Blue Route and through to Smits in a few groups this year. If only these tandem riders would go faster up Edinburgh Drive! And then do their duty on the flat.

[janneman72]

Looks like there is going to be a highspeed chase down the Blue Route and through to Smits in a few groups this year. If only these tandem riders would go faster up Edinburgh Drive! And then do their duty on the flat.

Ride nicely and we will assist where we can, especially after smithwinkel

[carbon29er]

Ride nicely and we will assist where we can, especially after smithwinkel

I better get that 53 blade fitted then.

[janneman72]

I better get that 53 blade fitted then.

Here's a hint, we'll be riding 55-11 so even 54 should be fine ;-) Lol

[Speeltyd]

I am sorry I only see this post now - so, late with my 2c's worth - but here goes.

I've been riding social tandem since 1999, and did all the Argus's, 94,7s etc since then on the tandem.

I have never seen an incident/accident caused by a tandem - they sure must be there, but have not witnessed it.

In the 2014 Argus they had two social tandem groups and we were seeded with the real backmarker - tandems (TT) - I was very upset as we always finish under 4 hours, and felt I was wrongly seeded. Took it up with the organisers, but that was it. I thought of withdrawing, but in the end, started there.

We finished that year at just over 4 hours - having said it, we passed over 4000 cyclists, with less than 100 coming past us from lower seedings.

We were obviously wrongly seeded.

In our attempt to ride faster (to not be that badly seeded again), we really pushed it - flying past backmarkers on downhill - in the process shouting at them to give way as we were that much faster. I think it annoyed a lot of people, including ourselves. (And this I think is a lot more dangerous than starting in the general groups.)  All because we were wrongly seeded - because of the batching of Tandems together.

I think batching tandems is unnecessary. Within 5 minutes from the start you are amongst the tailenders of the group ahead, and 10 minutes later the tandems are all dispersed. So, why a separate group? And then I think the real problems start as the faster tandems that were wrongly seeded, start pushing their way through the groups.

I wrote a letter to the organisers, motivating to seed tandems in their proper categories. I do not think it was only because of my motivation that it was changed, but sure I was very happy with the new way of tandem seeding.

Obviously the Racing Tandem group needs to remain as a group - they race in a special category. If you did not make the cut for that group this year, try again next year. That's out of my league though.

Just as a final note - just completed the 947 in 3h50. Not a super time, but happy with it. We started in the social tandem group, an hour after my mates with whom I normally ride. Because of that, we had to ride in the warmer part of the day, got the stronger wind etc. Again, we passed more than 2000 cyclists (then you must be wrongly seeded surely) and in the end finished with a time faster than 70% of the 10 groups ahead of us. Were we properly seeded, I am sure our time would have been at least 10 minutes shorter (just gutt feel).

PLEASE - let the tandems start in their seeded place.

 

 

[City Cycling Athletic Club]

its a ppa funride - anything goes - remember when they allowed tri-bars in the ladies "race".