epic women's race not up to scratch - Gunn-Rita

[Benjamin]

A silly pre Friday question...

 

Would equal rights be:

1) Allowing everyone to start according to their GC (men, women, vets, masters etc)

2) Allowing the top 10 in each cat to start ahead of people they're actually behind in GC?

Main problem with the former, is that not everyone is racing one another. The ladies aren't racing the men, or the Vets or Masters. They racing each other, that's the only GC that concerns them, so they should in theory start together as a batch. Like the men do.

 

However the reason for batching is to separate the field a bit and not have any congestion of the trail by relatively slower riders. So " many races within one race" makes it more complex.

[wanderwoman]

You cannot make up 300m in over 80kms? When you're good you're good.

I did find the coverage on SuperSport completely bias to the men  - nearly nothing women and really nothing on the other categories. 

[MikeyB]

Just for the record, this is 38k on stage 3, Ariane pulling Nico, Olli, Charly & co up the climb....no quarter asked!

[DIPSLICK]

Just for the record, this is 38k on stage 3, Ariane pulling Nico, Olli, Charly & co up the climb....no quarter asked!image.jpg

machine

[Wyatt Earp]

machine

 

Gunn-Rita - moanchine 

[Tubehunter]

Just for the record, this is 38k on stage 3, Ariane pulling Nico, Olli, Charly & co up the climb....no quarter asked!image.jpg

 

Don't think anyone is disputing the strength of the winning ladies efforts! They were the class of this event by a long way!

 

What is being suggested is that only 2 other ladies teams had the ability to expose them in any way at points along the routes daily as only 2 other teams were in the lead batch with them. This does not make for racing. What would the front of the men's racing cat look like if only the top 3 teams started in the first group and only had to mark those few efforts rather than take all the other attacks from the volume of teams into account during the various stages of the race. RECM were able to completely control the race because of their strength. But did they also get a free ride because they didn't have any of the other ladies teams with a shot at going for a stage win because they started in the next batch with the amateurs? What are your chances of pulling off even a stage win if you're not in the top 3 women's teams???? The disadvantage is too great!

[Gandalf]

I think what she is whining about is the start rules that allow the top mens team to start in A regardless of delay due to mechanical or sickness issues, whereas the ladies it becomes batch B

 

But yes, they should have made sure themselves that they had a good position (front) on Stage 1, and not rely on their pro status.

 

2015-03-24_1139.png

ah i see. but that is kinda hectic. They should maybe have "A" mens batch and "A" ladies batch like the trailseekers do etc. and apply that top rule to both batches.  

[eddy]

From then on, the start is according to your GC position. If you are number 2 ladies team, but 240th GC, you need to haul ass to be able to make it up to 120th GC (if that's where nr 1 lady is)

 

The problem is that KV would not be able to sell this to either the team, jersey or broadcast sponsors. They all want to see a "woman's" race.

 

While the benefit is not as marked as in a road race, starting in different groups does not make for a fair woman's race. She is right in that. Nobody has seriously suggested that the woman's race at say Argus is held with competitors starting strictly according to their seeding index. It would skew the racing fatally.

 

Maybe there should be separate, small start groups for the top 10 of each category, even if they start off quite close to each other. 

[hvh]

Sy het gedink Annika gan Langvad om klaar te maak, maar toe is sy vinnig klaar.

[Andrew_ew]

In road racing, when the elite women race with the Vets men, they usually do much better times than when they race in their own group.

 

It does provide them with a massive advantage and its a fair complaint by Gunn-Rita.

[eddy]

Just for the record, this is 38k on stage 3, Ariane pulling Nico, Olli, Charly & co up the climb....no quarter asked!image.jpg

 

 

Playing devil's advocate, no matter how strong she is does she not get an unfair advantage over her competitors (those competing for the same prize money) by working with and benefitting from such a strong group?

[GLuvsMtb]

In road racing, when the elite women race with the Vets men, they usually do much better times than when they race in their own group.

 

It does provide them with a massive advantage and its a fair complaint by Gunn-Rita.

Only if there is an actual gap between starting various seeded groups. Was there any time gaps between the seeded groups at the Epic this year? If it was W2W or Sani2C where there is a 10 minute gap, it makes sense, but not if the seeding is merely done to place the mass start in an order of overall time and they essentially all start together. 

[DIPSLICK]

Playing devil's advocate, no matter how strong she is does she not get an unfair advantage over her competitors (those competing for the same prize money) by working with and benefitting from such a strong group?

I FIRST HIT LIKE THEN READ AGAIN,,,,surely the same as someone who made the effort to get a good seeding to get a sub 3,,,,,thats why everyone does seeding races isnt it???

the reason initially i said this will escalate because she is right and she is wrong depends on how you look at it, most just wont like the way its been worded,, but obviously if you can run with the big boys you will have an advantage BUT YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO RUN WITH THE BIG BOYS

[Escapee..]

Playing devil's advocate, no matter how strong she is does she not get an unfair advantage over her competitors (those competing for the same prize money) by working with and benefitting from such a strong group?

 

Interesting thread

 

I think they would definitely get an advantage by pulling away with the likes of CoolHarvey

 

Did they earn it? Yes they definitely did.

 

Is it far? Hard to say

 

 

 

Please also note that the article was translated so some of her intent/emotion could have been lost in translation

[sias]

In road racing, when the elite women race with the Vets men, they usually do much better times than when they race in their own group.

 

It does provide them with a massive advantage and its a fair complaint by Gunn-Rita.

That's because they sit in bunches of 100+ riders and wait for the sprint. I didn't see the winning ladies team sitting in the mens' slip at any stage during the (limited) coverage? This type of race is completely different race from a quick 2:45 dash, sitting slip all the way and sprinting for glory. No comparison...

[Andrew_ew]

Only if there is an actual gap between starting various seeded groups. Was there any time gaps between the seeded groups at the Epic this year? If it was W2W or Sani2C where there is a 10 minute gap, it makes sense, but not if the seeding is merely done to place the mass start in an order of overall time and they essentially all start together. 

 

There usually is a gap between seeded groups. I don't know if there was a time gap between groups at the Epic.

 

The point was not the time difference between start groups being the advantage but the composition of the start group. Elite women in local road races generally have faster times when they race with the licensed vets men (i.e. either the men pull them or they race harder to show the men a thing or two (which they do)!) compared to when they race in a woman's only group.

 

Having faster riders in front of you must be more of an advantage than riders of equal ability around you. In mtb'ing having technically proficient riders in front of you showing you the good lines is also a big advantage.