Cycling Cecilia cork tree trail

[(Deon)]

Deon,

thanks for your detailed reply, much appreciated and keep up the good work

 

You very obviously have far more patience than me to sit through so many meeting trying to get approval for the "circum-peninsula mtb/shared-use trail"

From the time of the original '2002 EMP' till now in 2015 is one hell of a long time

 

All i am at present asking for is access to the 1500m of 'cork tree trail' running adjacent to the very narrow, dangerous for cyclists, and busy Rhodes Drive, no fynbos there, only alien pines and cork trees

 

One can feel for the 'service delivery' protesters if this is how long it take to get a goverment agency to resolve a small item like this

Look, I am not being facetious when saying that you could also ask CoCT to improve the road to make it safer.. what you are suggesting cannot be handled in isolation of the process the TMNP region of SANParks national reserves to go through. Rob just tried, before him Cobus tried, before him Meurant tried, then there is the legislated way.

 

Fact is CoCT too will need to run a process that considers various factors that we as laymen don't consider.

 

All I want at home is a garage for my car and you'd think since it's MY land I could head off to builders warehouse and take advantage of the Weekend Winter Warmer Wild Whale of a Sale, but I too am held to process. Damn, I have to ask the guy down the road who was surprised that there was even a house at the end of the dirt drive..  So too Table Mountain National Park will need to ask Granny Wiggins who walks her "Foofie" once a quarter down that stretch. You cannot blame the Park's staff for the need to follow protocol, this is a national reserve. 

Edited June 24, 2015 by (Deon)

[DJR]

................... So too Table Mountain National Park will need to ask Granny Wiggins who walks her "Foofie" once a quarter down that stretch. ..............

  She's the one that swung at me with her walking stick that one time I got a little lost in Newlands.    

[Headshot]

I have done some research, if you can call google research of course. 

 

Read this link re the relevant sections of the Criminal Procedure Act and take note of the fact that an admission of guilt payment in terms of Section 57 of the CPA has the effect of a conviction in court. That is not to say that the record will be recorded, but it is a criminal conviction. 

 

http://www.jp-sa.org/Sec57CPA.asp

 

Secondly, the ticket is allegedly issued in terms of the following regulations

 

https://www.environment.gov.za/sites/default/files/gazetted_notices/nempaa_naturereserves_g32472gen1029.pdf

 

Regulation 62 is relevant. However, the ticket Toby has refers to a non existent sub section of the Regulations.

 

There is also the question of the amount of the fine which appears to be completely excessive. Note that the Regulations speak of criminal offences and possible jail time. Very draconian response to someone getting some exercise in a plantation, not even what could be termed a sensitive nature reserve area.

 

I think that the ticket is invalid and there is a chance that these regulations are unconstitutional.

 

My opinion - don't pay, go to court and contest the ticket on the basis of the non-existent section it quotes and the amount  Chances are that it will get thrown out by the control or senior prosecutor.

[(Deon)]

  She's the one that swung at me with her walking stick that one time I got a little lost in Newlands.    

She is a swinger. You want her address?

 

A little lost, sure. 

[(Deon)]

 

There is also the question of the amount of the fine which appears to be completely excessive. Note that the Regulations speak of criminal offences and possible jail time. Very draconian response to someone getting some exercise in a plantation, not even what could be termed a sensitive nature reserve area.

 

I know, I thought that fine was actually for entering a disaster area closed off from the public due to the fire. Until recently riding out of bounds was R500..

[Toby Adams]

I have done some research, if you can call google research of course. 

 

Read this link re the relevant sections of the Criminal Procedure Act and take note of the fact that an admission of guilt payment in terms of Section 57 of the CPA has the effect of a conviction in court. That is not to say that the record will be recorded, but it is a criminal conviction. 

 

http://www.jp-sa.org/Sec57CPA.asp

 

Secondly, the ticket is allegedly issued in terms of the following regulations

 

https://www.environment.gov.za/sites/default/files/gazetted_notices/nempaa_naturereserves_g32472gen1029.pdf

 

Regulation 62 is relevant. However, the ticket Toby has refers to a non existent sub section of the Regulations.

 

There is also the question of the amount of the fine which appears to be completely excessive. Note that the Regulations speak of criminal offences and possible jail time. Very draconian response to someone getting some exercise in a plantation, not even what could be termed a sensitive nature reserve area.

 

I think that the ticket is invalid and there is a chance that these regulations are unconstitutional.

 

My opinion - don't pay, go to court and contest the ticket on the basis of the non-existent section it quotes and the amount  Chances are that it will get thrown out by the control or senior prosecutor.

Thanks Tim for the advice

 

I'll go to court with an interesting book and wait my turn, i most certainly won't pay an admission of guilt fine of R2500 for cycling this 1500m track of alien vegitation

 

In future, to get to the TMNP jeep tracks below Tafelberg Road I'll be forced to cycle in the traffic, with the option of going home via the local trauma unit

 

Let's call an end to this discussion, and wait for 2020 or somewhere around there, when we will be able to congratulate those with more patience than me

[Headshot]

• The "trial basis" in Cecelia as handled by Table Mountain Bikers independent of the TMMTB forum, is dependent on the completion of the revised EMP for which the TMMTB forum has a set goal of no-later than the the end of this year - 2015.  It requires public participation and various joint document revisions which takes time due to the level of detail. 

The question is why it is dependent on the EMP completion? The bigger picture involves finding additional areas where bikes can go due to the closure of Tokai. TMNP have themselves encouraged this but render the Cecelia concession  a non-event because at this rate, by the time it does get full legality Tokai will be open again... And of course, "trial basis" implies that it could be implemented then and there, pending final approval after the trial period. It makes no sense to have it approved ito an EMP in months time but only on a trial basis. 

 

 

The mind boggles at the collective idiocy...

 

Edited June 24, 2015 by Headshot

[Shebeen]

We need some help from above. Tannie helen is only on the road, razzmatazz only does tandem. 

Does mmusi maimane ride a mtb? If not then  this guys does, we need to get him in power ASAP?

 

 

[Bloukrans]

We need some help from above. Tannie helen is only on the road, razzmatazz only does tandem. 

Does mmusi maimane ride a mtb? If not then  this guys does, we need to get him in power ASAP?

 

 

jujubiker.jpg

Is that Musi checking Juju out?

[sadamhussein]

Illegal riding just screws it up for the hard-working guys trying to get official permission to ride that trail. Every time a ranger sees a cyclist there riding illegally, that process is held up.

 

too many people use the excuse that you are holding up the negotiation for permission process to chastise those who have balls to say - screw the system, I'm not waiting for something that's never going to happen, I'll ride there anyways.

 

there's always someone who's allegedly negotiating permission on behalf of others, but it's always someone I know who knows someone who's cousin is working on it. 

 

Parks can't generalise - what logic is there by banning law abiding riders on account of the actions of other illegal riders? does the government ban all motorbikes from the N2 because some other bikes were speeding there? No.

 

TMNP needs to get their heads out of their asses and realise that sports like base jumping, mountainbiking, paragliding, etc. are no more intrusive and damaging to the environment than horses that defecate all over the place and cause serious soil erosion with their hooves, or hikers that fall of cliffs and cost the tax payers millions in search and rescue efforts.

 

these laws/rules were drawn up long before these sports even existed and now, some 20 years later they still haven't caught a wake up and allowed these harmless sports to have their fair share of participation.

 

With the current state of our Zumocracy, I'm not holding my breath for change either.

Edited June 24, 2015 by sadamhussein

[(Deon)]

We need some help from above. Tannie helen is only on the road, razzmatazz only does tandem. 

Does mmusi maimane ride a mtb? If not then  this guys does, we need to get him in power ASAP?

 

 

jujubiker.jpg

The irony of Juju trying on a Trek, 'n groot nogal!

[Bloukrans]

too many people use the excuse that you are holding up the negotiation for permission process, to chastise those who have balls to say - screw the system, I'm not waiting for something that's never going to happen, I'll ride there anyways.

 

there's always someone who's allegedly negotiating permission on behalf of others, but it's always someone I know who knows someone who's cousin is working on it. 

 

Parks can't generalise - what logic is there by banning law abiding riders on account of the actions of other illegal riders? does the government ban all motorbikes from the N2 because some other bikes were speeding there? No.

 

TMNP needs to get their heads out of their asses and realise that sports like base jumping, mountainbiking, paragliding, etc. are no more intrusive and damaging to the environment than horses that defecate all over the place and cause serious soil erosion with their hooves, or hikers that fall of cliffs and cost the tax payers millions in search and rescue efforts.

 

these laws/rules were drawn up long before these sports even existed and now, some 20 years later they still haven't caught a wake up and allowed these harmless sports to have their fair share of participation.

And with the current state of our Zumocracy I'm not holding my breath for change either.

I think it is very simple - if I'm not allowed to ride a trail, I don't ride the trail. Simple.

 

Whether I agree with the landowner or not, that is not the issue.

 

Illegal riding is out. Simple

[sadamhussein]

I think it is very simple - if I'm not allowed to ride a trail, I don't ride the trail. Simple.

 

Whether I agree with the landowner or not, that is not the issue.

 

Illegal riding is out. Simple

 

the earth is 4,500,000,000 years old. will all of this even matter another 4.5billion years from now? NO.

Land ownership is a myth. it belongs to no one, time has proven that. 

 

my point, ride where you want.

[Bloukrans]

the earth is 4,500,000,000 years old. will all of this even matter another 4.5billion years from now? NO.

Land ownership is a myth. it belongs to no one, time has proven that. 

 

my point, ride where you want.

Ai ai, ok, ride where you want to ride!

[DJR]

................my point, ride where you want.

Sure, go ahead, but don't complain when fellow law abiding riders *** on you, or you get a fine from Parks, or when a farmer throws you physically off his land, or you get run over cycling on a freeway, or you get shot for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. (I know you are just being devils' advocate)

[dirtypot]

the earth is 4,500,000,000 years old. will all of this even matter another 4.5billion years from now? NO.

Land ownership is a myth. it belongs to no one, time has proven that. 

 

my point, ride where you want.

 

In 4.5billion years nobody will remember the R2500 fine that you received and paid for either....