GiantSpez Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 too many people use the excuse that you are holding up the negotiation for permission process to chastise those who have balls to say - screw the system, I'm not waiting for something that's never going to happen, I'll ride there anyways. there's always someone who's allegedly negotiating permission on behalf of others, but it's always someone I know who knows someone who's cousin is working on it. Parks can't generalise - what logic is there by banning law abiding riders on account of the actions of other illegal riders? does the government ban all motorbikes from the N2 because some other bikes were speeding there? No. TMNP needs to get their heads out of their asses and realise that sports like base jumping, mountainbiking, paragliding, etc. are no more intrusive and damaging to the environment than horses that defecate all over the place and cause serious soil erosion with their hooves, or hikers that fall of cliffs and cost the tax payers millions in search and rescue efforts. these laws/rules were drawn up long before these sports even existed and now, some 20 years later they still haven't caught a wake up and allowed these harmless sports to have their fair share of participation. With the current state of our Zumocracy, I'm not holding my breath for change either.Well said. Agree 100% every year people spend millions on bikes and gear, but are being limited to where they can ride, because the holdup is, they cannot figure out how best to administer a pay system. Screw them and the rest. A mtb will ride on the mountain and that is that.
DJR Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) ..........there's always someone who's allegedly negotiating permission on behalf of others, but it's always someone I know who knows someone who's cousin is working on it.............Right here on the Hub, on this very thread, are at least 3 people who have done exactly that. Used their own time, for no remuneration, sometimes to the detriment of their day jobs and their families, to negotiate the very frustrating workings with Sanparks. To you it might not look like they have done much, but boy oh boy, I don't think many people have the stomach and the stamina to do what they have done and are still doing. Historically, the way mtb routes and access were arranged with Parks was on a purely ad hoc and totally random way. This meant mtb was always at the mercy of the little burocrat managing the little turf where we wanted to ride. Tokai under the previous manager is a good example. Nothing was on paper, nothing was official. A totally impossible situation with no progress possible. So, a few people thought, let's do this the right way, even if it is the hard, near impossible way. They started a process of getting us proper legal access with the right documentation and process. Tokai MTB and the Table Mountain Bike Forum were formed. AMArider, the PPA and Table Mountain Bikers were also involved. Representatives were elected at meetings, formal AGMs were held. A few fights were fought. EMPs were done, papers were written, lots of late nights, many hours of meetings were held. When this process succeeds, mtb will have long term tenure in places like Tokai. That is, in a National park, a Biodiversity Hotspot, a Natural Wonder of the World, on our doorstep. That is the aim! And it is within our reach. Rather support the people fighting for it because they will end up achieving more for mtb than those just looking at short term goals (nothing wrong with those, but they will not work without long term vision.) (Enough of my 2c for now) Edit: There, I just noticed that a 4th person who are involved in negotiations just checked in here! Edited June 25, 2015 by DJR Mntboy, Capricorn, sadamhussein and 3 others 6
DJR Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Well said. Agree 100% every year people spend millions on bikes and gear, but are being limited to where they can ride, because the holdup is, they cannot figure out how best to administer a pay system. Screw them and the rest. A mtb will ride on the mountain and that is that.The fact that people spend millions on guns and gear every year, doesn't give them the right to go on a killing spree either. I'm not supposed to call people names here on the Hub or I'll get a warning for being naughty, but you really are a giantspez! (Deon), Godzilla and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 3
(Deon) Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Well said. Agree 100% every year people spend millions on bikes and gear, but are being limited to where they can ride, because the holdup is, they cannot figure out how best to administer a pay system. Screw them and the rest. A mtb will ride on the mountain and that is that. ..and that was that.
sadamhussein Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Thanks to those working so hard at securing proper long term access. I do appreciate what goes into that as I have been involved in similar fruitless attempts to secure similar access to the Drakensberg for another adrenaline sport. By doing this I properly put the sport in question on the parksboards' radar and made it even harder if not impossible to do it there without attracting some very negative attention.thus my conclusion - it's often easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission, because permission is not forthcoming. I do not condone trespassing on privately owned land, but I do have a serious problem with large wilderness expanses like the drakensberg or table mountain being declared a no-go area until further notice by government, leaving you with no similar alternative.Kind of like what's happening with e-tolls. You have no alternative but to submit to the system until it changes, which is not likely. Edited June 24, 2015 by sadamhussein mazambaan and Danger Dassie 2
marko35s Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 the earth is 4,500,000,000 years old. will all of this even matter another 4.5billion years from now? NO.Land ownership is a myth. it belongs to no one, time has proven that. my point, ride where you want.What ridiculous logic. Godzilla 1
marko35s Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Well said. Agree 100% every year people spend millions on bikes and gear, but are being limited to where they can ride, because the holdup is, they cannot figure out how best to administer a pay system. Screw them and the rest. A mtb will ride on the mountain and that is that.Wow they really are coming crawling out of the woodwork today.
mikethebike234 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 ,quote name="marko35s" post="2650552" timestamp="1435163082"] Wow they really are coming crawling out of the woodwork today. Wait till Friday ... T-Bob 1
mikethebike234 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 After the fires I never renewed my permit ..expired a few days ago. Once there kid clarity on what the hell is going on then I will renew and start riding again until then I will polish my stanchions and have wistful recollections of old tokai.... sadly I haven't even got on my bike since I probably won't ride again until tokai I open again ...yeah I hear you saying go ride the northern suburbs trails ...I just don't have the time and the spare cash to drive out that way. I am curious about this black hill though ...but where is it ...is it legal? I also don't have the time and money for a fat fine and or court appearance either.. (Deon) 1
mikethebike234 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Delete duplicate .... Edited June 24, 2015 by mikethebike234
marko35s Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 After the fires I never renewed my permit ..expired a few days ago. Once there kid clarity on what the hell is going on then I will renew and start riding again until then I will polish my stanchions and have wistful recollections of old tokai.... sadly I haven't even got on my bike since I probably won't ride again until tokai I open again ...yeah I hear you saying go ride the northern suburbs trails ...I just don't have the time and the spare cash to drive out that way. I am curious about this black hill though ...but where is it ...is it legal? I also don't have the time and money for a fat fine and or court appearance either..I hear you, gone from riding 4 or 5 times a week to twice a month. Blackhill is legal. Drive over Ou Kaapse Weg past Longbeach Mall and through the traffic lights onto Blackhill Road. The Trail is on the right around 800 meters past the lights.
mikethebike234 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) I hear you, gone from riding 4 or 5 times a week to twice a month. Blackhill is legal. Drive over Ou Kaapse Weg past Longbeach Mall and through the traffic lights onto Blackhill Road. The Trail is on the right around 800 meters past the lights.[/quote requires a permit? Maybe when silver mine is open then maybe worth the cost of the permit?? I do know that I'm in for a shock when I do ride again ..a tad different to the stationery bike at gym ha ha .so a good ride... up Ou Kaapse Weg silver mine. .. Ou wapad down to black hill out at Glen cairn tootle along main road to kalk bay coffee then home along boys drive ...well that would be a fine way to kill a day . Edited June 24, 2015 by mikethebike234
marko35s Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 I hear you, gone from riding 4 or 5 times a week to twice a month. Blackhill is legal. Drive over Ou Kaapse Weg past Longbeach Mall and through the traffic lights onto Blackhill Road. The Trail is on the right around 800 meters past the lights.[/quote requires a permit? Maybe when silver mine is open then maybe worth the cost of the permit?? I do know that I'm in for a shock when I do ride again ..a tad different to the stationery bike at gym ha ha .so a good ride... up Ou Kaapse Weg silver mine. .. Ou wapad down to black hill out at Glen cairn tootle along main road to kalk bay coffee then home along boys drive ...well that would be a fine way to kill a day .No permit needed for blackhill at the moment, bear in mind it us only a small trail at the moment but the plan is for it to grow over time.
T-Bob Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Oh look... It's gone all to tw*t. Times like this I actually wonder how people take us seriously as a group. Believe it or not the world doesn't revolve around us and our god given right to do what ever the hell our tiny self rightious, self serving hobby wants. We ride bikes for fun a tiny percentage of the week and 99% if us don't contribute squat to the actual improving our sport but bitch and moan. Some times I think that TMNP should shut it all down then there wouldn't even be the issue. Oh yeah. If you're riding illegally you're not fighting the man... You're just being a tool. Try doing something revolutionary. Build a trail, work with those who, despite your crowing, hold the power because it's a national park. Not just a 2 wheeled play ground or a privaty owned wine farm where you can do what ever you want. Captain Fastbastard Mayhem, marko35s, Mntboy and 1 other 4
Mntboy Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 ame="mikethebike234" post="2650603" timestamp="1435168969"]No permit needed for blackhill at the moment, bear in mind it us only a small trail at the moment but the plan is for it to grow over time.How sure are you on not needing a permit for Black hill. Isn't it a part of the TMNP?
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