Froome Braces for Doping questions

[worriesnot]

I wonder what role the advancements in technology in terms of bikes, parts and gear (helmets, kit, shoes), aerodynamics etc has to play in riders being 'clean' now, but being faster than in an era when they were all 'dirty'...? 

 

Does anybody just enjoy watching pro cycling anymore...?

It can't be that enjoyable if all one does is wonder how they're doing what they are, instead of just appreciating it.

Ja must be tough going through life second guessing and speculating every amazing feat and stand-out individual / athlete.

I for one am in awe of what I saw yesterday and think the effort was phenomenal. 

In a time where athletes can be tested at any time I would like to think common sense prevails and that there is nothing untoward going on ESPECIALLY if you are a top contender and wearing the yellow jersey.

I choose to rather unconditionally enjoy the moment and if something goes wrong, well then it does. I will then live with the disappointment but not before.

[Odinson]

Can anyone be blamed for being suspicious of stand-out performances in the world of elite road cycling?

[Garfield2010]

^{this gets quite tiring actually. Any above average performances by a number of riders from the same which includes dropping off specialist climbers as if they were schoolboys is instantly met with skepticism.}

^{Would this not peeve anyone off? I'd rather just enjoy the performance for what it is  - if there's any doping happening, hopefully it will be discovered - hindsight is a perfect science.} 

 

There I fixed it

[Andrew Steer]

Yesterday was impressive, but people need to maintain a little perspective here... 

 

Froome - won the last Tour de France he finished, he was favourite for a reason - this is him and his Teams main focus. Yes it's very Postal'esque, but having a main goal is not a bad idea? Building a team to achieve that goal is not a bad idea? The sports history is counting very much against him in my view.

 

Contador - Tried to do the Giro/Tour double - it's not looking good - also lost his best support rider two days ago, not to mention emotional strain etc from Basso's diagnosis - and on top of it claims to have had breathing problems.

 

Quintana - This is his second Tour de France, he's still competing for the best young rider comp, and he also peaked later on in his first Tour de France - he could well come back. This is the first mountain stage - there is a moer long way to go! I expect him to hurt Froome at least once or twice in the mountains

 

Nibali - defending champ, but champion by default if we're honest. When has he ever competed with these guys? Yes, correct, never!

 

Van Garderen - long been spoken of highly, but never really stepped up to the plate, is currently sitting second having done nothing spectacular. Looks like good old fashion progression to me.

 

Valverde, Purito - never been consistent - will no doubt have some great days in the mountains, but they've always just been outside shots for a podium etc.

 

The Tour if you ask me is going pretty much exactly as I would have predicted (okay a little hindsight helps too  ) - Yes Sky are strong, yes Porte is a super domestique (probably why somebody wants him as a team leader), but you can't just say a team is doping because they are strong?

 

Yes, don't bury your head in the sand, but at least evaluate and debate things on merit - this could be Postal #2, but it could also just be a great team who have put everything in place to ensure they achieve their goals.

 

I've long stopped having a horse in this race, but I believe in everyone being allowed a fair shout at least  

PS: Froome as a person is nothing like Lance as a person    

[Garfield2010]

Ja must be tough going through life second guessing and speculating every amazing feat and stand-out individual / athlete.

I for one am in awe of what I saw yesterday and think the effort was phenomenal. 

In a time where athletes can be tested at any time I would like to think common sense prevails and that there is nothing untoward going on ESPECIALLY if you are a top contender and wearing the yellow jersey.

I choose to rather unconditionally enjoy the moment and if something goes wrong, well then it does. I will then live with the disappointment but not before.

 

Needless to say the athletes aren't stupid.  They will very rarely take known banned substances  in a race.  However the real question is what untraceable substances are they taking that we don't know of (if any)........

 

Until the EPO test was developed, million of people like yourself believed in the lie.

 

"enjoying the moment" is good for now until you feel betrayed a few years later.

 

I honestly cannot believe that yesterdays performance was so good considering recent form of all the riders involved.........  but that's just me

[Paul Ruinaard]

I always start to wonder when 2 teammates are way stronger than specialist climbers.

 

Is blood doping detectable yet if one uses one's own blood?

Yes it is - you need to read some of the details around how they can detect the age of blood cells etc. Pretty complex testing though.

[Vetseun]

Yesterday was impressive, but people need to maintain a little perspective here... 

 

Froome - won the last Tour de France he finished, he was favourite for a reason - this is him and his Teams main focus. Yes it's very Postal'esque, but having a main goal is not a bad idea? Building a team to achieve that goal is not a bad idea? The sports history is counting very much against him in my view.

 

Contador - Tried to do the Giro/Tour double - it's not looking good - also lost his best support rider two days ago, not to mention emotional strain etc from Basso's diagnosis - and on top of it claims to have had breathing problems.

 

Quintana - This is his second Tour de France, he's still competing for the best young rider comp, and he also peaked later on in his first Tour de France - he could well come back. This is the first mountain stage - there is a moer long way to go! I expect him to hurt Froome at least once or twice in the mountains

 

Nibali - defending champ, but champion by default if we're honest. When has he ever competed with these guys? Yes, correct, never!

 

Van Garderen - long been spoken of highly, but never really stepped up to the plate, is currently sitting second having done nothing spectacular. Looks like good old fashion progression to me.

 

Valverde, Purito - never been consistent - will no doubt have some great days in the mountains, but they've always just been outside shots for a podium etc.

 

The Tour if you ask me is going pretty much exactly as I would have predicted (okay a little hindsight helps too  ) - Yes Sky are strong, yes Porte is a super domestique (probably why somebody wants him as a team leader), but you can't just say a team is doping because they are strong?

 

Yes, don't bury your head in the sand, but at least evaluate and debate things on merit - this could be Postal #2, but it could also just be a great team who have put everything in place to ensure they achieve their goals.

 

I've long stopped having a horse in this race, but I believe in everyone being allowed a fair shout at least  

PS: Froome as a person is nothing like Lance as a person 

 

Lekker post Andy. Enjoyed reading it

[Baaisikilist]

Needless to say the athletes aren't stupid.  They will very rarely take known banned substances  in a race.  However the real question is what untraceable substances are they taking that we don't know of (if any)........

 

Until the EPO test was developed, million of people like yourself believed in the lie.

 

"enjoying the moment" is good for now until you feel betrayed a few years later.

 

I honestly cannot believe that yesterdays performance was so good considering recent form of all the riders involved.........  but that's just me

Whew, glad watching cycling doesn't make me this miserable...

[Garfield2010]

Whew, glad watching cycling doesn't make me this miserable...

 

Who said I am miserable.  I am a realist.  And I still watch it and enjoy it for what it is.  I am just not naïve.

[mtbride]

All depends on whether he and his team does this for the next couple of days, dropping every single other climber like they're standing still.

 

A once off performance like this is believable, but should not be repeatable day after day.

 

But then again, they might hold back just to keep the eyes off them ... break them the 1st day in the mountains, and then ride with them the rest of the days. good strategy ...

[Baaisikilist]

Realist, pessimist, whichever.

I try not to let things that don't actually matter so much in my life bother me.

[PJP2013]

Yesterday was impressive, but people need to maintain a little perspective here... 

 

Froome - won the last Tour de France he finished, he was favourite for a reason - this is him and his Teams main focus. Yes it's very Postal'esque, but having a main goal is not a bad idea? Building a team to achieve that goal is not a bad idea? The sports history is counting very much against him in my view.

 

Contador - Tried to do the Giro/Tour double - it's not looking good - also lost his best support rider two days ago, not to mention emotional strain etc from Basso's diagnosis - and on top of it claims to have had breathing problems.

 

Quintana - This is his second Tour de France, he's still competing for the best young rider comp, and he also peaked later on in his first Tour de France - he could well come back. This is the first mountain stage - there is a moer long way to go! I expect him to hurt Froome at least once or twice in the mountains

 

Nibali - defending champ, but champion by default if we're honest. When has he ever competed with these guys? Yes, correct, never!

 

Van Garderen - long been spoken of highly, but never really stepped up to the plate, is currently sitting second having done nothing spectacular. Looks like good old fashion progression to me.

 

Valverde, Purito - never been consistent - will no doubt have some great days in the mountains, but they've always just been outside shots for a podium etc.

 

The Tour if you ask me is going pretty much exactly as I would have predicted (okay a little hindsight helps too  ) - Yes Sky are strong, yes Porte is a super domestique (probably why somebody wants him as a team leader), but you can't just say a team is doping because they are strong?

 

Yes, don't bury your head in the sand, but at least evaluate and debate things on merit - this could be Postal #2, but it could also just be a great team who have put everything in place to ensure they achieve their goals.

 

I've long stopped having a horse in this race, but I believe in everyone being allowed a fair shout at least  

 

PS: Froome as a person is nothing like Lance as a person    

 

 

What I would have liked to have seen yesterday was Froome collapse in a heap gasping for air on the finish line after the huge effort he just put in.

 

What I would like to see today is Froome get dropped off the front on the Tourmalet as a result of the huge effort he did yesterday. Or at least see him have a few bad day during the three weeks. 

 

For me he is just no trying hard enough.

[SwissVan]

Yesterday was impressive, but people need to maintain a little perspective here... 

 

Froome - won the last Tour de France he finished, he was favourite for a reason - this is him and his Teams main focus. Yes it's very Postal'esque, but having a main goal is not a bad idea? Building a team to achieve that goal is not a bad idea? The sports history is counting very much against him in my view.

 

Contador - Tried to do the Giro/Tour double - it's not looking good - also lost his best support rider two days ago, not to mention emotional strain etc from Basso's diagnosis - and on top of it claims to have had breathing problems.

 

Quintana - This is his second Tour de France, he's still competing for the best young rider comp, and he also peaked later on in his first Tour de France - he could well come back. This is the first mountain stage - there is a moer long way to go! I expect him to hurt Froome at least once or twice in the mountains

 

Nibali - defending champ, but champion by default if we're honest. When has he ever competed with these guys? Yes, correct, never!

 

Van Garderen - long been spoken of highly, but never really stepped up to the plate, is currently sitting second having done nothing spectacular. Looks like good old fashion progression to me.

 

Valverde, Purito - never been consistent - will no doubt have some great days in the mountains, but they've always just been outside shots for a podium etc.

 

The Tour if you ask me is going pretty much exactly as I would have predicted (okay a little hindsight helps too  ) - Yes Sky are strong, yes Porte is a super domestique (probably why somebody wants him as a team leader), but you can't just say a team is doping because they are strong?

 

Yes, don't bury your head in the sand, but at least evaluate and debate things on merit - this could be Postal #2, but it could also just be a great team who have put everything in place to ensure they achieve their goals.

 

I've long stopped having a horse in this race, but I believe in everyone being allowed a fair shout at least  

 

PS: Froome as a person is nothing like Lance as a person    

 

So much logic, I like this

 

Just to add to the Froome debate, remember the 2012 TDF where he had to wait for Wiggins (the guy who smashed the hour record recently), if performance is going to be the way to decide if someone is doping then he must have been doping then as well? Why then has his samples from 2012 not been found positive?

 

Just maybe consider Froome could have the ability to do what he did then and still doing now without resorting to illegal doping.

 

Its sad that people are prepared to crucify others on pure speculation, instead of sitting back and enjoying the event. OomH had a good word for people like that.... "suurtiete" 

 

Just wait until the East Africans start dominating cycling (if they get the chance, which is another debate), LAwd I feel sorry for them. Oh wait its already happening  ja well you know what I mean by East Africans, not some whitey who lived there

 

I leave you with a fresh quote from Ross Tucker

 

"I can’t stress enough – today’s mountain finish, and the estimated 6.1 – 6.2 W/kg produced by Chris Froome for 41 minutes (even though the attack only really came in the second half) is not an isolated reason to prove doping and entrench skepticism about cycling".

[Garfield2010]

All depends on whether he and his team does this for the next couple of days, dropping every single other climber like they're standing still.

 

A once off performance like this is believable, but should not be repeatable day after day.

 

Look as said before they are not stupid.  OK maybe yesterday was a little stupid with the Porte thing but now questions are raised so I don't expect them to repeat the same even if they are capable (consider for a moment how easily they dropped the best pure climbers in the world yesterday).  They know all eyes are on them now so they will just hang in the pack and try to look average, redirecting the heat.  Barring a crash or something the tour is won so CF doesn't need to attack again until lets say the Alpe Du Huez.

[Garfield2010]

So much logic, I like this

 

Just to add to the Froome debate, remember the 2012 TDF where he had to wait for Wiggins (the guy who smashed the hour record recently), if performance is going to be the way to decide if someone is doping then he must have been doping then as well? Why then has his samples from 2012 not been found positive?

 

Just maybe consider Froome could have the ability to do what he did then and still doing now without resorting to illegal doping.

 

Its sad that people are prepared to crucify others on pure speculation, instead of sitting back and enjoying the event. OomH had a good word for people like that.... "suurtiete" 

 

Just wait until the East Africans start dominating cycling (if they get the chance, which is another debate), LAwd I feel sorry for them. Oh wait its already happening  ja well you know what I mean by East Africans, not some whitey who lived there

 

I leave you with a fresh quote from Ross Tucker

 

"I can’t stress enough – today’s mountain finish, and the estimated 6.1 – 6.2 W/kg produced by Chris Froome for 41 minutes (even though the attack only really came in the second half) is not an isolated reason to prove doping and entrench skepticism about cycling".

 

I hope OomH referred to LA doubters as suurtiete as well......  because I was one when his lies came out.

 

Just because no tests were positive it does not mean that there is in fact no doping - we have had this argument already.  For those of you who believe the sport is clean refer to this:-

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

 

I hope Froome and his team is clean - somehow I just have to doubt this.

 

I watch TDF and cycling in general for the drama of crashes and mechanicals, for the beautiful countryside and the awesome bikes.  Heck I was in Paris last year for the final stage and it was awesome.

 

I do however place as much belief on the yellow jersey as a WWE match outcome

[tombeej]

All depends on whether he and his team does this for the next couple of days, dropping every single other climber like they're standing still.

 

A once off performance like this is believable, but should not be repeatable day after day.

 

For me, that is the clincher.

 

If someone is able to hammer on the front all day, then attack to win at the top, then do it again the next day (and the next, and the next) without having a single bad day, that will settle things in my mind that they're doped.

 

It's just not humanly possible.

 

Christophe Basson's autobiography was a serious eye-opener (we should all know who he was). He talks in detail about how his body degenerated to alarming levels during a grand stage, with a haemocrit hovering at around 30, badly anaemic, sick, listless, unable to climb simple hotel steps, etc. All the while, his doped up Festina teammates were doing amazing feats day after day and then were laughing and joking at the breakfast table, healthy pink cheeks, sparkly eyes, lots of energy. And these same guys showed lesser physical VO2Max and other results than Bassons during testing. In fact, Bassons had similar physical performance abilities to Hinault in testing. He should have been a grand tour GC contender, but most of the time he could barely keep up at the back of the bunch.

 

For me, in a perverse way, it's a lot more encouraging to see AC suffer on the first mountain stage. I feel like I'm watching a human, not a performance enhanced robot superhuman. Same with Nibali (yes I know I said a lot of things about Astana during the Giro). 

 

Now I'm expecting Thomas and Porte to have a few excellent days in the mountains, pulling Froome up into position. I've got no problem with what I saw yesterday by those guys. But then I fully expect them to pay for these efforts with bad days to follow.

 

If they don't then I'll have to start revising my attitude towards Sky.