USN sues Critic

[johnpat]

I'm probably biased 

 

ASA forcing USN to do multiple retractments due to false claims of efficacy is not a textbook case of "subjectivity", or "bias". 

 

Science is quite nice in that there is either proof that stuff does what you say it does, or there isn't. The products under scrutiny (note, these are not energy drinks) made pretty hefty claims, with no scientific basis. 

 

And Albe is the one suing. No so subtle on his part either.

[raptor-22]

when you can't win, tie them up in court and let financial resources sort out the winner

[Danger Dassie]

ASA forcing USN to do multiple retractments due to false claims of efficacy is not a textbook case of "subjectivity", or "bias". 

 

Science is quite nice in that there is either proof that stuff does what you say it does, or there isn't. The products under scrutiny (note, these are not energy drinks) made pretty hefty claims, with no scientific basis. 

 

And Albe is the one suing. No so subtle on his part either.

 

As you subjectively quoted.

 

I know, and those claims could probably extend across the board with all supplements and specific ones like all the fat burners etc on specific products..... rightly so.

 

No doubt he's suing, since he's the one who the remarks have been directed at, on a personal level. Don't think it's anything anyone in his position wouldn't do at some point.

[AdrianDJ]

As you subjectively quoted.

 

I know, and those claims could probably extend across the board with all supplements and specific ones like all the fat burners etc on specific products..... rightly so.

 

No doubt he's suing, since he's the one who the remarks have been directed at, on a personal level. Don't think it's anything anyone in his position wouldn't do at some point.

Everyone is doing it.... So its chilled. Close the thread

[Bat]

The way I see it is that USN is getting tired of people or in this case a person bad mouthing, or critisisng their Brand without actual proof or criticism. As on the hub on many, many occasions when a person try and criticize a bike brand for poor quality or service, a LBS for their poor workmanship, or just general complaints, the hub members usually ask have all options being investigated before such a compliant has been posted. Has this been done by the person being sued?

 

The reason for USN suing is for possible future financial loss as this person is getting his word spread and many people who did buy or might have thought of buying the product now either have second thoughts or will stop buying it. Word of mouth is very effective as we all know on the Hub. From the majority of negative comments posted, this I believe is just one good example of how USN will fight their case of future loss in revenue.

 

I am using USN products, but since they re-marketed their products I don't enjoy it as in the past, and seeing this thread I am also having second thoughts. This is exactly what USN don't want from just speculation. So all our educated, and knowledgeable hubers should maybe practice what they preach before making comments for the sake of commenting.

[Skylark]

From what many have pointed out Usn is a repeat offender regarding their products making sometimes blatantly unfounded claims, can't say this guys article is a shot in the dark, more like justifiably bringing the issue to the attention of a greater audience.The guy is doing a community service for sportsman, Usn should know better by now?

I spoke to a guy that makes sports supplements, it's all a numbers game, get the protein in there and the whatever else you want to have claimed on the packaging, using whatever dubious industrial type raw ingredients from the cheapest supplier that will do the job. Get it lab tested, so your claims are half proveable, add some sugar/sweetner/aspartame/flavourants that make the junk barely palatable, add loud in your face graphic design with stock images of extremely ripped people and let the money roll in.

The reason why melamine was found in many food products is it is used to cheaply boost the protein levels of products so lab tests show the stated protein content is as claimed and therefore the manufacturers could charge more for the product.

Whole foods are what the body can work with, very few of these so called sports supplements can provide anything remotely close to that. Awesome 75g of protein per 100g serving(and you'll pay the huge premium for the "extreme protein" version that has claims like that) but in practice your body can barely absorb any of it and makes your stomach feel pretty uncomfortable trying to digest it, majority exits as waste material. Garbage in garbage out?

[Rocket-Boy]

It doesnt really matter, because when I look at supplements I will pass up the USN stuff in favor of pretty much anything else.

Its mainly because of things like this and the fact that they have made many claims in the past that they could not back up. V02 max was a prime example.

[HappyMartin]

What grates on me is we are flooded with advertising. From every direction. For all types of things. We all know it's mostly junk we don't need or won't do what is claimed. From data contracts that never have the speeds we are paying for, cell phones that barely manage a call, food that is over processed junk, cars that fall apart just out of warranty, software full of bugs. The list goes on.

 

But let one person stand up and call it like it is and his butt is hauled into court. We are all afraid to say what we think on this thread because of litigation but companies can make any claims they want. Freedom of speech as long as you have money.

[Paul Ruinaard]

As i get older I get to realize that the way to find out why people take extraordinary measures is to find out who stands to gain or lose the most.

 

Simply put in the words of Jerry Macguire - "Show me the money".

 

And in this case i think its pretty evident where that trail will lead.

 

Messrs USN have quite a lot of hubris around their products.

 

Or better put in the old maxim in Afrikaans: "I know there is a difference between sh!t and chocolates, and this isnt a chocolate".

 

 

 

 

[Tumbleweed]

I'm probably biased since I use some of the products and met Albe a few times in passing.

 

Personally, never had an issue with their products nor the quality, and the reality is that all the other stuff out there is just as subjective.

Think much of the basis of this article is more part of a personality clash between the author, respondent and USN etc. Certainly a poorly written biased piece and not so subtle slight at Albe directly, so one would have to think for themselves and wonder what's the author's angle.

 

So your determination of the author's bias is based on your own bias, which would open you to the question of what your angle is. Care to declare? The author is an activist not a journalist. His aim is to discredit untrue claims. True, he goes beyond that, but so does your post. Can you comment on the merits of what he says or just the way he says it?

[usxorf]

Here's a useful resource for checking which supplements work.

[tubed]

Useful thread.

 

Their stuff is generally a waste of money - rather do something useful with your spare cash than pee it down the urinal.

 

Another angle to it which does stick in my throat is the whole sponsorship side of this debacle.

The ethics of riders and teams promoting stuff at every turn (#greatestproductever) when the know the stuff is nonsense, but it pays them some small retainer, some free kit or entry fee - I find it hard then to take these riders seriously - and these are supposedly our top pros - all of whom have an opinion on doping, but at the same time promote a scam product....

 

On the plus side, the willingness of Drs Jeroen Swart and Jarrad van Zuydam to to enter the debate publicly and stand behind their products or points of view is to be highly commended. Jeroen's Q&A thread on his products on this site was one of best - no hype just science or something like that...*

 

**I retract what I said on GNC, seems they met the compliance req after all:

GNC: http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexmorrell/2015/03/31/gnc-ny-ag-deal-herbal-supplements-were-in-compliance-but-new-testing-requirements-instated/

 

(ps:*never yet used a Cadence product) 

[Joe Low]

So your determination of the author's bias is based on your own bias, which would open you to the question of what your angle is. Care to declare? The author is an activist not a journalist. His aim is to discredit untrue claims. True, he goes beyond that, but so does your post. Can you comment on the merits of what he says or just the way he says it?

 

Have you got an angle too TW?  Your summary earlier was good - the defendant has a good case but left himself open in the way he expressed it.  Makes it interesting to see which way the court decides if it gets that far, which it probably wont.

 

My angle?  I like Albie, USN not so much.

[Tumbleweed]

Have you got an angle too TW?  Your summary earlier was good - the defendant has a good case but left himself open in the way he expressed it.  Makes it interesting to see which way the court decides if it gets that far, which it probably wont.

 

My angle?  I like Albie, USN not so much.

 

I'm on the consumer's side in this :-)

[nathrix]

Specialized and USN, the world wouldn't exist without it...

[Pah Bear]

Another angle to it which does stick in my throat is the whole sponsorship side of this debacle.

The ethics of riders and teams promoting stuff at every turn (#greatestproductever) when the know the stuff is nonsense, but it pays them some small retainer, some free kit or entry fee - I find it hard then to take these riders seriously - and these are supposedly our top pros - all of whom have an opinion on doping, but at the same time promote a scam product....

 

(glad nobody has even suggested they use GNC products ... )

 

(ps:*never yet used a Cadence product) 

Agree with the comment made earlier, In today's world (like it or not) "show me the money" dictates peoples principle choices.

 

I think being a professional can be daunting and sometimes people promote things that (seems to) "do no harm" because it puts bread on the table. No pro, but each to his choices. The thing is "choices" are something we all accountable for, we all live (and suffer the consequences) by those we make.

 

So ... decide to be duped by advertising, then it's your choice. We have a brain. We must use it.

 

PS: I have a Cadence product (on my Garmin)