BDF Posted April 4, 2016 Share See my comment above re winning a Grand Tour clean. Why would I accuse an all-round nice bloke like Froomey without a shred of concrete evidence? Ha ha. Froomey being an all-round nice bloke I guess is also a matter of opinion! . I don't think @Patchelicious was looking for an accusation but an opinion. "Do you think...?" = asking for opinionv.s."Are they dopers?" = asking for accusation/vindication. Anyway, it is my ignorance inspired opinion that Froome does not dope (with anything that is currently banned!). There, I said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor-22 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Someone do that thing with the picture of the whacky hairdo guy and the caption " I can't explain it, there fore doping/aliens " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted April 4, 2016 Share Someone do that thing with the picture of the whacky hairdo guy and the caption " I can't explain it, there fore doping/aliens " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Savage Posted April 4, 2016 Share This story seems as legit at a Pure Savage blog post. "supplying 150 british pro cyclists" There are not near 150 pro british cyclists. Think a reporter got a little bored and could not be bothered. Find a blood bag in someone's freezer or a script for EPO with a real persons name on, then write an article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velouria Posted April 4, 2016 Share This story seems as legit at a Pure Savage blog post. "supplying 150 british pro cyclists" There are not near 150 pro british cyclists. Think a reporter got a little bored and could not be bothered. Find a blood bag in someone's freezer or a script for EPO with a real persons name on, then write an article. Perhaps that is the problem with the Pure Savage blog posts - seeing one thing, and saying something else The quote you are looking for is "doctor Mark Bonar is alleged to have prescribed performance-enhancing drugs to 150 athletes" not "supplying 150 british pro cyclists"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonus Posted April 4, 2016 Share Some People are just freaks of nature and extremely talented. Bonus takes a bow . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon29er Posted April 4, 2016 Share Jcza, do you believe in any cyclist?That is so easy to answer. A guy gets done for a banned drug, no question he was positive. Not one pro has a bad word to say about him doping, Mr Clean goes on air to say never. But said guy was POSITIVE, caught red handed. SAIDS didn't cover thmeselves in glory with delays etc and the guy finds a nameless pharmacist to testify, via affidavit not subject to cross examination, that he had contaminated gel capsules by dispensing said drug to the immediately preceding customer. Oh the coincidence, Said guy gets off. Twitter is flooded with "Well done" messages from fellow pros. Why? Because he was innocent or because he beat the system? So to answer your question, no. But I love the spectacle. Wrestlemania was on last night. If you accept it's sports entertainment it can be quite fun to watch. Read this article by Ross from 2007 http://sportsscientists.com/2007/11/the-effect-of-epo-on-performance/ The points he makes are still valid today - you can't win clean if even 1 guy is doping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickleberry Posted April 4, 2016 Share Believe that they will win or believe that they are clean? No I don't believe that it is possible to win a Grand Tour clean in the current environment. And I definitely don't believe that clean riders can beat dopers in a sport where an advantage of 1% can be the difference between podium and mid-pack.This man speaks wise words and is not stupid. They dope, move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted April 4, 2016 Share This man speaks wise words and is not stupid. They dope, move on.I don't for 1 second doubt there are people doping in the pelaton. I base this on the fact that people are getting caught often enough. But I am not going to believe that "they all dope" just because you said so. If a scenario is brought forward that can be discussed and the evidence leans toward them being dirty, then obviously people will start conceding and accepting that there are cases. This is again an attempt at a constructive debate to discuss how and why people see/believe and come to the conclusion about suspect events, rides, etc. like the statement that Nibali shouldn't have done well on the cobbles. That can be a constructive debate and we could probably learn from it. Froomes ascent at TdF last year? Astana's comeback at Giro.... If you don't want to present a constructive case then why even participate? Where I come from you are expected to back up a statement if it is questioned. Else anybody can just say what they want, stick their tongue out and say wella kapella... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickleberry Posted April 4, 2016 Share I don't for 1 second doubt there are people doping in the pelaton. I base this on the fact that people are getting caught often enough. But I am not going to believe that "they all dope" just because you said so. If a scenario is brought forward that can be discussed and the evidence leans toward them being dirty, then obviously people will start conceding and accepting that there are cases. This is again an attempt at a constructive debate to discuss how and why people see/believe and come to the conclusion about suspect events, rides, etc. like the statement that Nibali shouldn't have done well on the cobbles. That can be a constructive debate and we could probably learn from it. Froomes ascent at TdF last year? Astana's comeback at Giro.... If you don't want to present a constructive case then why even participate? Where I come from you are expected to back up a statement if it is questioned. Else anybody can just say what they want, stick their tongue out and say wella kapella...Patch, the thing is , in my 20s I used many substances to get big and I have felt the strength gains you get from a simple jab of 200mg of testosterone enanthate per week. While I have never used the likes of EPO or endurance related drugs I can only imagine the huge impact on performance they will make. The peloton by large admission during the "lance era" was dirty as hell , yet today's clean athletes are not slightly , but substantially faster then they were back then. Yes equipment has got better but I have felt these things work. It's like trying to say a natural body builder can win Mr Olympia. It's not gonna happen. 44 kph ave speed across 3 weeks of riding , through the alps and Pyrenees , naturally? Big question for me. Also for a domestique(read crap rider) can finish and even lead out world class, cut above , champions and hold with them till the last 3 ks on final climbs is unbelievable at best. I just don't see it. Not Tryna argue hard here, just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted April 4, 2016 Share Patch, the thing is , in my 20s I used many substances to get big and I have felt the strength gains you get from a simple jab of 200mg of testosterone enanthate per week. While I have never used the likes of EPO or endurance related drugs I can only imagine the huge impact on performance they will make. The peloton by large admission during the "lance era" was dirty as hell , yet today's clean athletes are not slightly , but substantially faster then they were back then. Yes equipment has got better but I have felt these things work. It's like trying to say a natural body builder can win Mr Olympia. It's not gonna happen. 44 kph ave speed across 3 weeks of riding , through the alps and Pyrenees , naturally? Big question for me. Also for a domestique(read crap rider) can finish and even lead out world class, cut above , champions and hold with them till the last 3 ks on final climbs is unbelievable at best. I just don't see it. Not Tryna argue hard here, just my opinion.Yeah I hear you, I really do. What I am trying achieve here though is not to convince somebody of one or another, but rather to discuss "whys".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intern Posted April 4, 2016 Share Chaps, they all dope. There is no way you can race like that on pane e acqua; let's not be naive and fall for the propaganda and the Tour of Renewal and all that. It's plainly insulting. Accept that it is part of the sport at the highest level. Which sport? Oh, that's right, all of them.Don't be surprised when it turns out your idols have feet of clay...AGAIN.Remember what JA said: For 50 years bike racers have been taking stimulants. Obviously we can do without them in a race, but then we will pedal 15 miles an hour (instead of 25). Since we are constantly asked to go faster and to make even greater efforts, we are obliged to take stimulants.At least he was honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gummibear Posted April 5, 2016 Share Chaps, they all dope. [/size][/font][/color]At least he was honest.That's the way I look at it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor-22 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Why is it being stated by some that "there's no way they can ride like that for three weeks without doping".What are the facts forming this opinion? Surely one must have participated in several studies with well trained and pro athletes to understand the limits of human endurance . Or does it stem from getting a 2:61 Argust time and therefore if you can't do it those who do must be doping? Still seeing throw it out there arguments with no basis of fact to opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted April 5, 2016 Share Some people have a belief and then state it as fact, others look at facts and expert opinions and then form their own opinions. People who state opinions as fact cannot be reasoned with.... ???? Facts contributing to an opinion can be debated, but opinions alone cannot be debated constructively because it's belief vs belief, many wars have started because of this rational of arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intern Posted April 5, 2016 Share Why is it being stated by some that "there's no way they can ride like that for three weeks without doping".What are the facts forming this opinion? Surely one must have participated in several studies with well trained and pro athletes to understand the limits of human endurance . Or does it stem from getting a 2:61 Argust time and therefore if you can't do it those who do must be doping? Still seeing throw it out there arguments with no basis of fact to opinionThe very people who have done those 3 week races, all the way through to Lance Armstrong, have made that case, not me. More importantly, I've never done the Argus, so perhaps you're right, I have no leg to stand on opining like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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