HOEKVLAG Posted April 4, 2016 Share Read slowly..... It's comforting that the two biggest transformations in cycling, Wiggins & Froome, (against the backdrop of mass doping globally) are clean. I've inserted some punctuation and brackets to assist. You're welcome. Maybe change the font... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velouria Posted April 4, 2016 Share It's comforting that the two biggest transformations in cycling, Wiggins & Froome against the backdrop of mass doping globally are clean Thought I'd read that somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcza Posted April 4, 2016 Share Jcza, do you believe in any cyclist? Believe that they will win or believe that they are clean? No I don't believe that it is possible to win a Grand Tour clean in the current environment. And I definitely don't believe that clean riders can beat dopers in a sport where an advantage of 1% can be the difference between podium and mid-pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcza Posted April 4, 2016 Share No need to get rude. I asked you a simply question. Do you think they are doping, yes or no? Never tested positive so must be clean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattlesnake Posted April 4, 2016 Share No need to get rude. I asked you a simply question. Do you think they are doping, yes or no?I'll speak (a little more plainly).... It is highly unlikely that the performances of any of today's or yesterday's grand tour winners was achieved without assistance from currently banned substances or substances to be banned in the future. Especially against the backdrop of riders lower down in the pack getting bust for doping and the power output numbers being achieved vs. the Lance era. Or perhaps lets look at other strange anomolies like a rider like Vincenzo Nibali or a Nairo Quintano and their performances on the cobbles 2 years back at the tour.... I could go on, but I'll end off by using our local MTB anti hero (Rourke Croeser) as an example. Bust for using EPO and came 15th. The other 14 riders must be REALLY talented to have beaten him without the benefit of a drug that boosts performance somewhere between 10 and 20%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted April 4, 2016 Share Excuse me could I make an appointment with Dr Boner Bonar please.... Not sure i could make that call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Boab Posted April 4, 2016 Share Excuse me could I make an appointment with Dr Boner Bonar please.... Not sure i could make that call Really? It's not that hard........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted April 4, 2016 Share Never tested positive so must be clean Ai really, let me ask again. Do you think they are doping, yes or no? ps: I pinkie promise to not ask for proof to substantiate your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDF Posted April 4, 2016 Share Ai really, let me ask again. Do you think they are doping, yes or no? ps: I pinkie promise to not ask for proof to substantiate your answer.It seems that you are unlikely to get a direct straightforward answer from @jcza. He has avoided the direct answers to you in other threads where the doping issue was discussed as well. It seems that it is easier to have generalised opinions than specific ones some times. Thing is that as long as he avoids a direct answer he cannot he tied down and won't answerable/accountable for the answer. Answering by innuendo or suggestion rather than directly always gives a way out if things turn bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonus Posted April 4, 2016 Share Read slowly..... It's comforting that the two biggest transformations in cycling, Wiggins & Froome, (against the backdrop of mass doping globally) are clean. [/size] I've inserted some punctuation and brackets to assist. You're welcome. [/size] Since when do you only get punctuation if you specifically ask for it? Sound like something Ryan Air would do . . . :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted April 4, 2016 Share I'll speak (a little more plainly).... It is highly unlikely that the performances of any of today's or yesterday's grand tour winners was achieved without assistance from currently banned substances or substances to be banned in the future. Especially against the backdrop of riders lower down in the pack getting bust for doping and the power output numbers being achieved vs. the Lance era. Or perhaps lets look at other strange anomolies like a rider like Vincenzo Nibali or a Nairo Quintano and their performances on the cobbles 2 years back at the tour.... I could go on, but I'll end off by using our local MTB anti hero (Rourke Croeser) as an example. Bust for using EPO and came 15th. The other 14 riders must be REALLY talented to have beaten him without the benefit of a drug that boosts performance somewhere between 10 and 20%.Cool, this we can debate. You make mention of a few points: 1: It is highly unlikely that the performances of any of today's or yesterday's grand tour winners was achieved without assistance from currently banned substances or substances to be banned in the future. - Why do you say it is highly unlikely? Surely future banned substances cannot be taken into account now? 2: Or perhaps lets look at other strange anomolies like a rider like Vincenzo Nibali or a Nairo Quintano and their performances on the cobbles 2 years back at the tour.... Why are you saying these are anomolies. I am not saying I disagree, but when does a performance become a stand out anomolie? Do you have others you think are suspect? 3: I could go on, but I'll end off by using our local MTB anti hero (Rourke Croeser) as an example. Bust for using EPO and came 15th. The other 14 riders must be REALLY talented to have beaten him without the benefit of a drug that boosts performance somewhere between 10 and 20% - I struggle to accept this arguement that everybody who finishes ahead of a convicted doper is automatically also dirty. For that to be the case you would have to assume that each athlete has the exact same base fintness, training program etc. A + 20% does not equal B + 20% if A and B are different. Also the numbers given 10-20% are a bit less these days. Micro dosing (the doping that has been proven one can get away with) doesnt equate to 10% in World Tour athletes, the numbers are more in less than 5% range now, still enough to make a big difference amongst the top guys or guys in the same "dicilpline". But to illistrate the point a doped up to the gills Andre Greipel will never beat a clean Quintana at a grand tour on overall GC. Nor will a doped up climber ever beat a clean Caleb Ewan on a flat sprint.... so for the arguement to hold, we need to look at the athlete caught doping and not just say that EVERYBODY ahead of them is dirty. There was that dude who got bust doping at the Epic a few years back, in like 200th place. Wouldnt it be silly to then say based on that finding that all 199 people ahead of his are dirty too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PietSw Posted April 4, 2016 Share Even a doped up Asafa Powel could not beat Usain Bolt ... Wonder if they have ever tested Bolt, Especially after a 9.58 Gold Medal Olympic World Record Breaking Run, with a loose shoelace... Some People are just freaks of nature and extremely talented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeegMig Posted April 4, 2016 Share Just look at all the Sky starters over the past 10 years. That will be all of them. Marginal gains, my arse.Lets hope Cav isn't dragged into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeegMig Posted April 4, 2016 Share Even a doped up Asafa Powel could not beat Usain Bolt ... Wonder if they have ever tested Bolt, Especially after a 9.58 Gold Medal Olympic World Record Breaking Run, with a loose shoelace... Some People are just freaks of nature and extremely talented.Usain was on the Ellen show few weeks back.He could be a freak of nature orr,,, Maybe she can be to him what Oprah was to Lance in a few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy Posted April 4, 2016 Share Even a doped up Asafa Powel could not beat Usain Bolt ... Wonder if they have ever tested Bolt, Especially after a 9.58 Gold Medal Olympic World Record Breaking Run, with a loose shoelace... Impossible for UB to be a doper. Jamaica is, and always has been, at the forefront of the anti-doping crusade. I'd sooner believe that Kulebuse Zuma got his oil concessions in the DRC because his uncle wangled it before I believe that ANY Jamaican could get away with doping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaco-fiets Posted April 4, 2016 Share He is probably the team Sky doc.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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