The Mystery Rider has been found, NOW how to keep going to Friday?

[popcorn_skollie]

Nope. None of the above. It's a static motion-activated camera. And a very well hidden one at that. 

 

Any other cameras about? I mean with all the drama on the Tygerberg trails lately nobody ever stops me and I'm not a member. How do they know I paid?

Is there a guy inside the honesty box waiting for me to post my love notes?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Any other cameras about? I mean with all the drama on the Tygerberg trails lately nobody ever stops me and I'm not a member. How do they know I paid?

Is there a guy inside the honesty box waiting for me to post my love notes?

It's a big problem, no doubt. With the Snapscan point of sale thing there, you can use the receipt as proof. But money dropped in the box - no such thing. They're investigating a way to get this sorted, but as landowners themselves are "in charge" of managing the day entries, and until they agree to receive a bit of help from the club on that side of things, it's bound to be difficult. 

 

Solutions are simple, yet potentially costly. Runs to a receipting system, essentially. 

 

Either a salaried person at the trail head, handing out receipts, or a POS device which accepts cards and / or cash. A vending machine of sorts. It's more difficult to implement than it looks. 

[(Deon)]

You have very valid points. And as a preventative measure the club would be correct to dissuade okes from getting violent. And a trespass case might be just what is needed to dissuade the other side to play ball. But it's a huge hassle that I can t see the landowners wanting in their lives

I think I mentioned this in the previous "rogue" thread, that a bit of time tutoring the public on self-policing etiquette could be worth more than the effort it takes.

[dev null]

Whatever you do, always be civil.

 

We have lost access to land after some riders were rude to landowners and/or their workers. Don't just make assumptions and have knee jerk reactions.

 

Remember, manners maketh man.

[BDF]

I think I mentioned this in the previous "rogue" thread, that a bit of time tutoring the public on self-policing etiquette could be worth more than the effort it takes.

Dishonesty/cheating just plain sucks. Its a shame that so much time, effort and money must be invested to mitigate this in our society. For me, its simple.

1. Tell me what the rules are
2. Make it easy to find them
3. Make them possible to keep
4. Then enjoy the ride, along with all the others that keep them. Harmony.

Why is it so hard for people just to stick to the rules?

 

Take this clown as an example. He had NO INTENTION of staying off the trail that was clearly marked. Did the oke have bees in his head or what? his behaviour ends up compromising the trail for 1000's of others who want to enjoy the trails. The easiest thing for the land owner to do is to simply close the trail completely.

 

Chop.

 

Rant over.

[RocknRolla]

Perhaps print handy pointers on "how to approach rogue riders" on the back of the number boards.

 

We can ask Emsie Schoeman to perhaps help with the wording?

 

or the summary:

 

"Don't be a Dwis"

[Warthog]

Trespassing is not criminal offence, its deemed to be a civil matter., yet assault can be deemed a criminal offence. I would rather let the land owner deal with this (with the club's support of course) than have members interpret the clubs guidelines on this as loosely as they wish.

Ticking time bomb... thats all I'm saying.

 

Not quite correct. The Trespass Act 6 of 1959 is still law...

 

Sect 1:

1 Prohibition of entry or presence upon land and entry of or presence in buildings in certain circumstances

 

(1) Any person who without the permission-

(a) of the lawful occupier of any land or any building or part of a building; or

(b) of the owner or person in charge of any land or any building or part of a building that is not lawfully occupied by any person,

enters or is upon such land or enters or is in such building or part of a building, shall be guilty of an offence unless he has lawful reason to enter or be upon such land or enter or be in such building or part of a building.

 

And the penalty:

 

2 Penalties

(1) Any person convicted of an offence under section 1 shall be liable to a fine not exceeding R2 000 or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding two years or to both such fine and such imprisonment.

 

If the club is given "lawful occupation" of that piece of land by the landowner, or is "in charge" thereof, they can lay formal charges and have the culprit prosecuted.

[Morne Veer]

A few in this thread, made comments with an undertone that the club asking its members get all worked up and violent out there.

 

This is discouraging to see, as this is definitely not the case. As per weekly emails to all members :  

 

"You are empowered to police your trails - if you see something wrong - report it ! "

 

The club even go as far as to provide, in this same mailer, a link to their website, for easy reporting of any contraventions. 

 

The perception being created that the members are being asked to get their hands dirty is not correct. Yes, in some trail reports by our master trail-builder, he has mentioned that we as paying members need to help protect our privileges and be on the lookout for transgressors of club rules....this is a very simple request and one that makes perfect sense.  We are not asked to get into any verbal altercations, on the contrary, but it makes perfect sense to ask the members to assist.

 

Yes, above, and on facebook groups / pages, guys will "talk big" and say how they will give the rogue rider a "pakslae" and force a Co2 bomb up, or down, some body parts, but that is VERY obvious nothing more than banter.....to take these comments, and now use that against the club and say we are being encouraged to take the law into our own hands, is disappointing. 

[PygaSchmyga]

or a proper opfok by paying members, one he will remember for a long time.

Old school. I like your spice. Nice one.

[Tubehunter]

The problem is that behaviour and outcomes are not always predictable. Imagine one of these rogue riders are packing some heat on their rides, a good law-abiding club member does his "duty" to confront the rogue rider. Or a over zealous member actually assaults a seemingly rogue rider (who turns out to be the land-owner's guest). Things get out of hand and someone gets hurt.

I hope that the club has sufficient public liability cover, because if it is expected of members to do this civil duty and a club member gets hurt or killed in the process, legal action will be sure to follow.

Trespassing is not criminal offence, its deemed to be a civil matter., yet assault can be deemed a criminal offence. I would rather let the land owner deal with this (with the club's support of course) than have members interpret the clubs guidelines on this as loosely as they wish.

Ticking time bomb... thats all I'm saying.

 

G, really trying to figure out what your angle is here dude? No matter how much I read your replies they essentially are trying to suggest that the rogue rider has more rights here, when the reality is that he did not end up on the trail in any way by accident. His was a deliberate act of disobedience from the club rules. The club is trying to deal with it and you as a long time member of these forums will KNOW that what people type about the actions they would take and what happens in reality is very far removed! The purpose of the thread was to see if anyone knew him to assist with getting the club to deal with it and they will!

[Patchelicious]

G, really trying to figure out what your angle is here dude? No matter how much I read your replies they essentially are trying to suggest that the rogue rider has more rights here, when the reality is that he did not end up on the trail in any way by accident. His was a deliberate act of disobedience from the club rules. The club is trying to deal with it and you as a long time member of these forums will KNOW that what people type about the actions they would take and what happens in reality is very far removed! The purpose of the thread was to see if anyone knew him to assist with getting the club to deal with it and they will!

If the club members didnt come and talk like Dirty Harry, G wouldnt have had an angle.

 

Its not that the rogue rider has MORE rights that the club members, but moering someone, chicken wire to clip his neck, paintnball guns is probably MORE wrong than rouge riding.

 

See, as soon as you act like a knobhead, the focus shifts away from the rogue rider and onto the RoboCop.

 

Think about in the sense that when a criminal gets caught, but the cop beat the crap out of them, the cops lose the moral high ground and often the criminal gets sympathy. Even though we might feel justice was done.

 

If was dealt with like GoFastorGoHome said, G wouldnt have been able to point out the breekers, their general attitudes and their threats.

 

Rogue riding is problem, the anger shown towards them is a clear indicator of that, but becoming an extremist is not going to help your cause.

[GLuvsMtb]

G, really trying to figure out what your angle is here dude? No matter how much I read your replies they essentially are trying to suggest that the rogue rider has more rights here, when the reality is that he did not end up on the trail in any way by accident. His was a deliberate act of disobedience from the club rules. The club is trying to deal with it and you as a long time member of these forums will KNOW that what people type about the actions they would take and what happens in reality is very far removed! The purpose of the thread was to see if anyone knew him to assist with getting the club to deal with it and they will!

There is no real "angle". I am genuinely concerned about public liability here. This is a far greater threat to the whole trail network (sounds absurd, but hear me out). 1 claim against the club and a land owner by someone who, rightly or wrongly were assaulted, on the offending or policing side, and we can kiss the club, its reserves and land access good bye.

I agree that the club should enforce the access policy. It makes sense. I do not agree to have untrained and overzealous members approaching rogue riders as it is just a matter of time before we have real crap on our hands. The policing thing started off by the club asking members to police their riding group (easier as you are generally friendly with these okes) to ensure that they are all paid up. For good measure members riding with non-paying riders were identified and publicly told to get their buddies to comply. It is just a bad idea to have 3000 members with their own interpretation of policing out there. I understand the purpose of the thread. The "grootmenere" with comments like "kom ons donner hulle" and "lets set choke wires at head height" is what set the alarm bells off in my head.

[Bloukrans]

OP, now that the "mystery" rider had been identified, please change the title and insert his name  

 

Ok, grappie!

[GLuvsMtb]

It's a big problem, no doubt. With the Snapscan point of sale thing there, you can use the receipt as proof. But money dropped in the box - no such thing. They're investigating a way to get this sorted, but as landowners themselves are "in charge" of managing the day entries, and until they agree to receive a bit of help from the club on that side of things, it's bound to be difficult. 

 

Solutions are simple, yet potentially costly. Runs to a receipting system, essentially. 

 

Either a salaried person at the trail head, handing out receipts, or a POS device which accepts cards and / or cash. A vending machine of sorts. It's more difficult to implement than it looks. 

To this end I think its about the packaging of the proposal.

If the club has an employee (casual labour?) selling day boards at each trail from 8am until 5pm, and a full and proper record is kept of rider numbers, and there is a profit share to the land owner, and some trained security monitoring from time to time, I find it difficult to see why a land owner would decline. Accurate numbers can also determine annual land availability fees, but you will have to introduce some check-in system for club members or have the trail casuals record their details as they enter.

Having each land owner doing their own thing creates confusion and also creates the impression that things are disorganised. Rogue riders does not like organised trail systems.

[gummibear]

OP, now that the "mystery" rider had been identified, please change the title and insert his name  

 

Ok, grappie!

Is he a hubber?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

To this end I think its about the packaging of the proposal.

If the club has an employee (casual labour?) selling day boards at each trail from 8am until 5pm, and a full and proper record is kept of rider numbers, and there is a profit share to the land owner, and some trained security monitoring from time to time, I find it difficult to see why a land owner would decline. Accurate numbers can also determine annual land availability fees, but you will have to introduce some check-in system for club members or have the trail casuals record their details as they enter.

Having each land owner doing their own thing creates confusion and also creates the impression that things are disorganised. Rogue riders does not like organised trail systems.

Agreed. 

 

BTW - land owners already get all the proceeds from day pass jobbie magafters. R 200 per day / R 300 per day cost for an employee to do the necessary? Sure that'll be overcome.