[Event] Carnival City Macsteel National Classic

[Spinnekop]

I've spent the best part of 2015 and 2016 dropping back from age cat racing to ride with club members (a few other members too, not only me). Mostly to get them to help drive the pace, rather than sit in the bunch, suck wheel as get a good time. My seeding index is suffering as a result, and have to ride in VB at the odd race to ensure I maintain a semi-decent level.

 

We started it in 2015 at the Emperor's race - a few may remember the "radios in the lower bunches" thread. It started that day, in EL - and most of the guys wanting to race are now in AL for most races. We occasionally drop down to BL if one or two guys aren't seeded in AL for a specific race.

 

Most of the guys in the alphabet groups don't know how to race tactically, be it on roads with full road closure (they keep left around the sweeping right turns), or can't maintain a rolling pace line (they usually surge ahead and the pace drops).

 

I would love to give back knowledge I've learnt over the years, and to help the B, C, D's to improve their cycling. Sadly, many aren't interested and only want a good time. A group working together can be much faster than a group sucking a few wheels.

I love this idea.

 

So how do we go about teaching those who want to be taught?

I know riding Velo helps a lot (Local club rides that are super hard and share the pacing in front for the greater good.....aka Strava)

So there is that. 

 

[Pikey]

I've spent the best part of 2015 and 2016 dropping back from age cat racing to ride with club members (a few other members too, not only me). Mostly to get them to help drive the pace, rather than sit in the bunch, suck wheel as get a good time. My seeding index is suffering as a result, and have to ride in VB at the odd race to ensure I maintain a semi-decent level.

 

We started it in 2015 at the Emperor's race - a few may remember the "radios in the lower bunches" thread. It started that day, in EL - and most of the guys wanting to race are now in AL for most races. We occasionally drop down to BL if one or two guys aren't seeded in AL for a specific race.

 

Most of the guys in the alphabet groups don't know how to race tactically, be it on roads with full road closure (they keep left around the sweeping right turns), or can't maintain a rolling pace line (they usually surge ahead and the pace drops).

 

I would love to give back knowledge I've learnt over the years, and to help the B, C, D's to improve their cycling. Sadly, many aren't interested and only want a good time. A group working together can be much faster than a group sucking a few wheels.

i would be all in for this.

[Patchelicious]

I've spent the best part of 2015 and 2016 dropping back from age cat racing to ride with club members (a few other members too, not only me). Mostly to get them to help drive the pace, rather than sit in the bunch, suck wheel as get a good time. My seeding index is suffering as a result, and have to ride in VB at the odd race to ensure I maintain a semi-decent level.

 

We started it in 2015 at the Emperor's race - a few may remember the "radios in the lower bunches" thread. It started that day, in EL - and most of the guys wanting to race are now in AL for most races. We occasionally drop down to BL if one or two guys aren't seeded in AL for a specific race.

 

Most of the guys in the alphabet groups don't know how to race tactically, be it on roads with full road closure (they keep left around the sweeping right turns), or can't maintain a rolling pace line (they usually surge ahead and the pace drops).

 

I would love to give back knowledge I've learnt over the years, and to help the B, C, D's to improve their cycling. Sadly, many aren't interested and only want a good time. A group working together can be much faster than a group sucking a few wheels.

 

 

I love this idea.

 

So how do we go about teaching those who want to be taught?

I know riding Velo helps a lot (Local club rides that are super hard and share the pacing in front for the greater good.....aka Strava)

So there is that. 

I will gladly do the same and drop back in a few races.

 

But like you say, I will do it for those who want it. So ask.....

 

Last year, we tried with the I-Group in 947, and it was a lot of fun!

 

So if there is a race coming up and a group wants to go sub 3 (or similar target) just say so, but if we drop back to help, you must be willing to do your bit to make those targets and listen to the advice and guidence given by the guys. You cant just expect a free ride to your goal time, that would be an empty victory

Edited November 7, 2016 by Patchelicious

[Prozac]

i would be all in for this.

Me too !

[Hennie VR]

I love this idea.

 

So how do we go about teaching those who want to be taught?

I know riding Velo helps a lot (Local club rides that are super hard and share the pacing in front for the greater good.....aka Strava)

So there is that. 

 

Velo..............pffffffff. The only thing Velo teaches me is how weak I am 

Velo is only fun when everyone is busy with base training 

[Veebee]

Me too !

 

Me three, although I am in DBN I come up quite often to do races here.

[Cycotic]

Me too !

Sounds like a great plan. We used to do something similar many years ago at Wesbank raceway, which used to open to cyclists in the afternoon. Flat as a pancake so it was perfect for learning how to ride a paceline and how to ride in a group at high speed. I would love the opportunity to pick up pointers from the likes of Gerald and the other accomplished hubbers. However, I would just be a little cautious of how it is organised. I know plenty of cyclists who are keen as hell and plenty fast enough, but are a danger to themselves and others in a bunch. I realise the aim is to give them these exact skills, but I'm not sure that a race is the best place to do that, especially when there are 100+ guys in the group. Wouldn't want to be the guy 2 inches from somebody's wheel when they run out of skill.

[Nibali]

dude Kudo's nibali for doing a sub 3 from cl . The pace was fast from the off and the front of cl were driving hard. To hard for me got dropped at 50km or so .. Slowly fell of and tried twice to get back on.Dude you guys were strong up front and put the hurt on the rest of cl. As for the guys that came flying past at 28km from dl ...how hard did you go to catch up as we were 40km/hr ave at that point.

 

Once again as only my 5th road race lots to learn about pace and when not to go.... 3:08 was a bit disappointing but considering the wind and lack of help in our group I'll happily take it.

 

Once again well done on sub 3 only 2 guys from cl managed it

 

Thanks man, appreciate it! I think everyone was hurting, we were in a group of masochists hey! I don't know how those DL guys did it, but only 1 managed to hang on to the end, so I think some of them paid for it.

 

Congrats on the time though, still a good outing in the conditions and with the group you were in.

 

The guy who won was a beast, I couldn't get past him in the end. He probably didn't even notice me trying to sprint against him, haha.

 

You were at prize giving, correct? Top 3 in CL.

 

Yeah, that was me. And my mates trying to embarrass me as they do.

[Frosty]

Sounds like a great plan. We used to do something similar many years ago at Wesbank raceway, which used to open to cyclists in the afternoon. Flat as a pancake so it was perfect for learning how to ride a paceline and how to ride in a group at high speed. I would love the opportunity to pick up pointers from the likes of Gerald and the other accomplished hubbers. However, I would just be a little cautious of how it is organised. I know plenty of cyclists who are keen as hell and plenty fast enough, but are a danger to themselves and others in a bunch. I realise the aim is to give them these exact skills, but I'm not sure that a race is the best place to do that, especially when there are 100+ guys in the group. Wouldn't want to be the guy 2 inches from somebody's wheel when they run out of skill.

Firstly, this would need a new thread, and dedicated buy-in from those wanting to learn - me included.

 

Secondly, speaking from experience, the best place to do it is in a race, where there is the safety of backup, medical and other services - not forgetting marshals at traffic intersections. A stop-start "club" ride does not work, as slower riders get shelled and the faster guys have to wait. If you can't ride at a certain average speed for 100km, you'll have to join another group - I'm sure there a few others willing to help share their knowledge.

 

It requires dropping back to a group where it won't interfere with the other riders, and preferably on an "easy" route. The stronger riders don't do all the work, but are seen rotating through the pack with the others and perhaps taking a longer pull - most likely in their endurance/tempo zone, while others less strong are in a tempo/threshold zone

 

I did this at the Amashova. I was in that "sweet spot" for most of the ride, recovering on the uphills. The group was about 30-40 with a handful helping with the pace work. But very few knew how to work in a rotating pace line. I would find a few guys riding off the front but slowing down as they started burning too many matches. The classic case of the tortoise and the hare.

[Zatek]

I will gladly do the same and drop back in a few races.

 

But like you say, I will do it for those who want it. So ask.....

 

Last year, we tried with the I-Group in 947, and it was a lot of fun!

 

So if there is a race coming up and a group wants to go sub 3 (or similar target) just say so, but if we drop back to help, you must be willing to do your bit to make those targets and listen to the advice and guidence given by the guys. You cant just expect a free ride to your goal time, that would be an empty victory

I will be game for this as well

[Cycotic]

Firstly, this would need a new thread, and dedicated buy-in from those wanting to learn - me included.

 

Secondly, speaking from experience, the best place to do it is in a race, where there is the safety of backup, medical and other services - not forgetting marshals at traffic intersections. A stop-start "club" ride does not work, as slower riders get shelled and the faster guys have to wait. If you can't ride at a certain average speed for 100km, you'll have to join another group - I'm sure there a few others willing to help share their knowledge.

 

It requires dropping back to a group where it won't interfere with the other riders, and preferably on an "easy" route. The stronger riders don't do all the work, but are seen rotating through the pack with the others and perhaps taking a longer pull - most likely in their endurance/tempo zone, while others less strong are in a tempo/threshold zone

 

I did this at the Amashova. I was in that "sweet spot" for most of the ride, recovering on the uphills. The group was about 30-40 with a handful helping with the pace work. But very few knew how to work in a rotating pace line. I would find a few guys riding off the front but slowing down as they started burning too many matches. The classic case of the tortoise and the hare.

 

I hadn't considered the backup and support at the races. That is definitely a huge plus. And if the group could be kept to 30-40 then it becomes much safer.

[Patchelicious]

I hadn't considered the backup and support at the races. That is definitely a huge plus. And if the group could be kept to 30-40 then it becomes much safer.

Or you could just make it smaller by HAMMERING it until it is of a desirable size

[Frosty]

I hadn't considered the backup and support at the races. That is definitely a huge plus. And if the group could be kept to 30-40 then it becomes much safer.

You will find others wanting to join the group during the race, but must remain at the back of the group and enjoy the ride, including at the finish. That's where the stronger riders can actually boss the group (in a nice way).

 

Step one is to get commitments, and plan which races to target. I too don't want to pull 2-3 people because other decide to drop out at the last minute. 100% in or it won't work.

 

Can't be left to one person to drive, but with decent communication it will be possible.

[hilton_]

You will find others wanting to join the group during the race, but must remain at the back of the group and enjoy the ride, including at the finish. That's where the stronger riders can actually boss the group (in a nice way).

 

Step one is to get commitments, and plan which races to target. I too don't want to pull 2-3 people because other decide to drop out at the last minute. 100% in or it won't work.

 

Can't be left to one person to drive, but with decent communication it will be possible.

 

I'm in. Under no illusions that I've got a lot to learn from riders who are a lot more experienced than me (been riding road for about 11 months, MTB for 13). Getting significantly better with each race (only done half a dozen) but it's more trial and error than anything specifically tactical. 

[Pikey]

So where do we start ? I only know what I see on tv,read,or read on bh. The rest is just a fly by the seat of your pants as the race unfolds. Which is probably all wrong anyway.

 

I have tried to get some like minded individuals to form an alliance for the 94.7 . This race especially as the i team learnt a lot from last year as fat boab point out .

But it seems most are on there own mission.

[Pikey]

I'm in. Under no illusions that I've got a lot to learn from riders who are a lot more experienced than me (been riding road for about 11 months, MTB for 13). Getting significantly better with each race (only done half a dozen) but it's more trial and error than anything specifically tactical.

 

Ditto this is me exactly...this was my 5 road race .