Tour de France legends to ride in Absa Cape Epic

[Bloukrans]

I see George is sharpening up his legs with some old friends cheats 

 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-hincapie-vande-velde-and-casey-reunite-for-24-hours-of-old-pueblo-gallery/?utm_content=buffer55548&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[Chris NewbyFraser]

Like almost everyone in cycle race organisation and administration worldwide Vermaak pays lip service to stamping out doping when it really matters.

 

The owner of the Epic is Ironman. What does this say about their attitude towards doping?

[andydude]

think their marketing backfired a bit on this.

 

wonder if they would allow LA race?

Has LA not been banned for life from any UCI or something races?

['Dale]

Has LA not been banned for life from any UCI or something races?

Yip yip

There's some category of public events he is allowed to compete like a recent 24 hr MTB race

Edited February 22, 2017 by 'Dale

[VB_]

Perhaps some slack is in order here, things were different in the good old bad old days..

[Mamil]

Agreed. The vituperative moral outrage is interesting to see. This same reaction led us to completely annihilate hansie cronje. I believe we treated him very badly indeed.

 

People make mistakes. I wonder how many of us, in similar positions, facing similar levels of demand, desire, ambition and pressure might not make similar decisions that so many elite athletes have made. Condemnaion and the desire for extreme punishment is easy. It allows us to feel superior, justly aggrieved and it suggests punitive remedy ti restore the illusion of the moral order. In reality I think these situations are more complex and full of human frailty and our propensity for error.

 

Maybe when we judge so harshly it expresses the almost universal frustration that the world is not as we want it to be, not even in the sprint for the finish line which we want so much to be pure and separate from the rest of messy humanity.

 

 

Perhaps some slack is in order here, things were different in the good old bad old days..

[GLuvsMtb]

Agreed. The vituperative moral outrage is interesting to see. This same reaction led us to completely annihilate hansie cronje. I believe we treated him very badly indeed.

 

People make mistakes. I wonder how many of us, in similar positions, facing similar levels of demand, desire, ambition and pressure might not make similar decisions that so many elite athletes have made. Condemnaion and the desire for extreme punishment is easy. It allows us to feel superior, justly aggrieved and it suggests punitive remedy ti restore the illusion of the moral order. In reality I think these situations are more complex and full of human frailty and our propensity for error.

 

Maybe when we judge so harshly it expresses the almost universal frustration that the world is not as we want it to be, not even in the sprint for the finish line which we want so much to be pure and separate from the rest of messy humanity.

 

 

 

My irritation is publicizing the participation of an ex-doper. I'm all for second chances given the rules are being adhered to, but there is no glory in it for me. ACE seems to have taken note of this and have gone very quiet about this.

[Bonus]

Agreed. The vituperative moral outrage is interesting to see. This same reaction led us to completely annihilate hansie cronje. I believe we treated him very badly indeed.

 

People make mistakes. . . .

 

 

 

 

I understand what you are saying, but does a career of systematic doping and the destroying of the lives of people trying to expose you really fall under the category "mistake"?

[intern]

Yeh a mistake is forgetting where you left the car keys, spending decades mainlining your own blood isn't quite in the same sort of league. Also, all these confessed dopers continue their careers at the same level but quit the dope conveniently 'years ago'. Yes, they seem trustworthy, don't they?

[Thor Buttox]

Agreed. The vituperative moral outrage is interesting to see. This same reaction led us to completely annihilate hansie cronje. I believe we treated him very badly indeed.

 

People make mistakes. I wonder how many of us, in similar positions, facing similar levels of demand, desire, ambition and pressure might not make similar decisions that so many elite athletes have made. Condemnaion and the desire for extreme punishment is easy. It allows us to feel superior, justly aggrieved and it suggests punitive remedy ti restore the illusion of the moral order. In reality I think these situations are more complex and full of human frailty and our propensity for error.

 

Maybe when we judge so harshly it expresses the almost universal frustration that the world is not as we want it to be, not even in the sprint for the finish line which we want so much to be pure and separate from the rest of messy humanity.

 

 

 

Hate to disagree with you, but a would think that a mistake has a couple of broad characteristics:

 

1) it was done with atleast some degree of unintentionality

2) that the consequences can be reasonably easily ascertained

3) some learning/growth is done that prevents a recurrence of the mistake

4) most importantly, acceptance of the mistake, and recompense and restitution is done in good faith, because the parties recognise 1) above.

 

Perhaps it may even take a series of mistakes by an individual, but then expand that to a series of murders and the mistakes aren't considered as clear cut. While I agree that it it not black and white as to where a mistake ends and a crime begins there is at least some reason to believe that systematic fraud over decades, without acceptance, nor recompense to innocent parties, is not just a mistake.

 

I have read tons on the subject and am busy with 'The End of the Road' about the Festina affair. They made an active, comprehensive decision to cheat using defined processes and methods. As did our friend Lance Armstrong (allegedly, out of his own mouth).

 

Perhaps you said it best about the 'punitive remedy to restore order'. In this case, as in so much of society at the moment, there is none. Just a vindication for the truth eventually.

[Mamil]

I don't really know enough about how people have made the decision to dope - I think I can understand though how a pro sportsperson might make the decision to dope to reach the goal that they spend every waking hour pursuing. That's different to a systematic policy of cheating. 

 

What I know about Lance A. is that he behaved abysmally for years and years which is also a different story. 

 

I reckon I just question the wave of indignation and outrage and the ease and sometimes even delight with which we condemn athletes. We move very easily from revering a hero to reviling a villain and that makes me suspicious. 

 

Having said that - everything I know about Armstrong says he behaved like a proper villain.

 

I have to say, I'm very interested to see how Cadel Evans does in the Epic. I think it makes for interesting sport. 

 

 

Hate to disagree with you, but a would think that a mistake has a couple of broad characteristics:

1) it was done with atleast some degree of unintentionality
2) that the consequences can be reasonably easily ascertained
3) some learning/growth is done that prevents a recurrence of the mistake
4) most importantly, acceptance of the mistake, and recompense and restitution is done in good faith, because the parties recognise 1) above.

Perhaps it may even take a series of mistakes by an individual, but then expand that to a series of murders and the mistakes aren't considered as clear cut. While I agree that it it not black and white as to where a mistake ends and a crime begins there is at least some reason to believe that systematic fraud over decades, without acceptance, nor recompense to innocent parties, is not just a mistake.

I have read tons on the subject and am busy with 'The End of the Road' about the Festina affair. They made an active, comprehensive decision to cheat using defined processes and methods. As did our friend Lance Armstrong (allegedly, out of his own mouth).

Perhaps you said it best about the 'punitive remedy to restore order'. In this case, as in so much of society at the moment, there is none. Just a vindication for the truth eventually.

[Thor Buttox]

I don't really know enough about how people have made the decision to dope - I think I can understand though how a pro sportsperson might make the decision to dope to reach the goal that they spend every waking hour pursuing. That's different to a systematic policy of cheating.

 

What I know about Lance A. is that he behaved abysmally for years and years which is also a different story.

 

I reckon I just question the wave of indignation and outrage and the ease and sometimes even delight with which we condemn athletes. We move very easily from revering a hero to reviling a villain and that makes me suspicious.

 

Having said that - everything I know about Armstrong says he behaved like a proper villain.

 

I have to say, I'm very interested to see how Cadel Evans does in the Epic. I think it makes for interesting sport.

That's just because there are many shades of grey, and some shades are darker than others. Whereas you might see an issue as merely a bit of moral slap and tickle, I might feel the need to whip up the baying thong.*

 

There have been many previous discussions on other threads covering our personal predilections for punishment of the guilty athlete.

 

But yes, watching Evans and Hincapie could be fun.

 

Edit: * - throng

[Goodbadugly]

I just wonder how ACE will handle this if one of the ex dopers are caught doping AGAIN on the Epic. (common things occurring commonly?)

Or are the doping officials kind of advised not to test some of the riders?

[andydude]

I just wonder how ACE will handle this if one of the ex dopers are caught doping AGAIN on the Epic. (common things occurring commonly?)

Or are the doping officials kind of advised not to test some of the riders?

What is the protocol in the Epic. How many tests per day? Only elite podiums or all category podoums at least every day?

[Mamil]

I've also wondered what kind of result I'd get if I got tested - I mean things are fierce down in HIJK - there are Savages there amongst other brutes .... would the pseudoephidrine in my occasional sinus med trigger a positive? How about my antihistamine (allergies a big thing in my respiratory tract) ... should I get a TUE before the Tour de PPA?

[Patchelicious]

Cadel can just hide the shame deep in that chin dimple if needed.

 

Come to think of it, doesnt need a SWAT box either....