Danger Dassie Posted January 30, 2017 Share I wonder if Ashburton are really aware of where all the money goes? Seems he is just in charge and carries on. Yes, they do a marketing measurement as well an audit of financials. Would be worried if an investment bank didn't do at least a due diligence. Ariane herself has commended the work and standard of events that Advendurance set as an example. So sure, maybe her and Fritz possibly have an adversarial relationship, but they at least acknowledge each other in their own right. Notice a lot of people have been making some very personal remarks towards Fritz Pienaar, personally feel that's a double standard given some of the content of those remarkd, and in the entire context of the debate raises question over their motives. Opposite sides of the same coin still make it the same coin. Gen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen Posted January 30, 2017 Share Yes, they do a marketing measurement as well an audit of financials. Would be worried if an investment bank didn't do at least a due diligence. Ariane herself has commended the work and standard of events that Advendurance set as an example. So sure, maybe her and Fritz possibly have an adversarial relationship, but they at least acknowledge each other in their own right. Notice a lot of people have been making some very personal remarks towards Fritz Pienaar, personally feel that's a double standard given some of the content of those remarkd, and in the entire context of the debate raises question over their motives. Opposite sides of the same coin still make it the same coin.I don't know the guy so can't say what kind of person he is, but judging from his response to her initial boycott (and the initial article) it just seemed that he made the decision not to have equal prize without consulting the sponsor..one would think if he had he would've said something along the line of..after discussing it with our sponsor.. Maybe he did discuss it with them and just omitted that part..(and yes this is just an assumption..) Edited January 30, 2017 by Gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted January 30, 2017 Share I wonder if Ashburton are really aware of where all the money goes? Seems he is just in charge and carries on.Wonder if the competition commission needs to investigate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydude Posted January 31, 2017 Share Don't you find this a bit ironic? They are confirming that the ladies are NOT equal by letting them race in a different category than the men, but then paying them the same as the men in the name of equality. Before I get attacked, I'm actually for equal prize money. L46 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikejunkie Posted January 31, 2017 Share Don't you find this a bit ironic? They are confirming that the ladies are NOT equal by letting them race in a different category than the men, but then paying them the same as the men in the name of equality. Before I get attacked, I'm actually for equal prize money.The distance was the same. Same course. Same conditions. Same everything. I don't understand your statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydude Posted January 31, 2017 Share The distance was the same. Same course. Same conditions. Same everything. I don't understand your statement?You forgot the most important thing, namely the time. But I assume you agree that men and women are not equal in MTB? Playing devil's advocate here! L46 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcza Posted January 31, 2017 Share Don't you find this a bit ironic? They are confirming that the ladies are NOT equal by letting them race in a different category than the men, but then paying them the same as the men in the name of equality. Before I get attacked, I'm actually for equal prize money. Ladies cannot complete with men but should be afforded the same opportunity to compete over the same distance with the same prize money in the same conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikejunkie Posted January 31, 2017 Share You forgot the most important thing, namely the time. But I assume you agree that men and women are not equal in MTB? Playing devil's advocate here!equality is not a fight, its a right! same race, same reward. full stop. Edited January 31, 2017 by Bikejunkie GLuvsMtb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydude Posted January 31, 2017 Share equality is not a fight... its a right! same race... same reward. full stop.You put forth no argument? I think you are confusing equal opportunity and equality. Men, women, children are not equal. But all deserve the same opportunity. But let's turn this around. If two men do the same job in a company, but one takes twice as long as the other, should they be paid the same? L46 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shebeen Posted January 31, 2017 Share I can't make my point any further - I just think giving out equal prizemoney just papers over the cracks, and this was a publicity stunt that put a race organiser in a difficult position. Ashburton's response to throw money at the problem in the short term does not make it a long term sustainable solution.On what do you base this fairly bold assumption? Also, I'm sure Ariane disagrees with you. And probably so does Ashburton. In any event, this was never about development of Elite riders - nobody every mentioned this - only you. This is about doing the right thing. All your economic arguments are just not relevant, whether they are right or wrong. Why do you want to continue to defend unequal treatment for female riders - it seems futile given that the sponsors reacted so quickly to change it? only going to respond to this one, as this has gone way beyond just playing devil's advocate for Fritz sound arguments from a commercial perspective (http://www.treadmtb.co.za/why-ariane-luthi-boycotted-the-ashburton-investments-series-opener/). Call it end of monday, but I was not referring to Ariane's argument as stupid - I was referring to my own analogy of pay gaps in the model industry grossly weighted towards females to prove a point that equality doesn't mean making everything identical for men and women. Viva equal prize money, Viva! Everything is cool in the pool now. Back to tennis (which is very relevant to this discussion) they did some window dressing for equal pay and we get epic 5 setters in the men's draw like sunday and the usual skirt chasing in the ladies . All those bashing me here are probably paid up members of the Emily Batty fanclub anyway. Going to back to my cave with my archaic thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted January 31, 2017 Share equality is not a fight... its a right! same race... same reward. full stop.Can you insist on that to my wife when I leave the toilet seat up? Why does she not lift it for me? :ph34r: Patchelicious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carelv Posted January 31, 2017 Share Isn't the point to attract more ladies to the sport. Having said that, is it even possible to get equal participation numbers?Taking into consideration the difference in the sexes.Most men like mud, dust, outdoors, a bit of fear, adrenaline. Things MTB provides lots of. These are not things the average lady are looking for in a sport? andydude 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydude Posted January 31, 2017 Share Isn't the point to attract more ladies to the sport. Having said that, is it even possible to get equal participation numbers?Taking into consideration the difference in the sexes.Most men like mud, dust, outdoors, a bit of fear, adrenaline. Things MTB provides lots of. These are not things the average lady are looking for in a sport?Yes. And I agree. If you make it that women see they can make a living like the men, then you will get more women competing. And more women will mean higher performance. Great snowball effect. And also, there is a historical context which also play a role, where women were seen as less than men. To become more equal opportunity you should actually have higher prize money for the women to try and correct for previous imbalances. I won't mind that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridefree Posted January 31, 2017 Share Isn't the point to attract more ladies to the sport. Having said that, is it even possible to get equal participation numbers?Taking into consideration the difference in the sexes.Most men like mud, dust, outdoors, a bit of fear, adrenaline. Things MTB provides lots of. These are not things the average lady are looking for in a sport?The sexism is just dripping from this comment. My favourite part - the "average lady" . Should we really get into who likes mud, outdoors and fear the most out of the guys and girls?? Gen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen Posted January 31, 2017 Share Don't you find this a bit ironic? They are confirming that the ladies are NOT equal by letting them race in a different category than the men, but then paying them the same as the men in the name of equality. Before I get attacked, I'm actually for equal prize money.The ladies have their own category, own start batch and race against each other..therefore a ladies prize purse. It is as good as a u23 race Edited January 31, 2017 by Gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen Posted January 31, 2017 Share Isn't the point to attract more ladies to the sport. Having said that, is it even possible to get equal participation numbers?Taking into consideration the difference in the sexes.Most men like mud, dust, outdoors, a bit of fear, adrenaline. Things MTB provides lots of. These are not things the average lady are looking for in a sport?Come again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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