Too early for Friday?

[Mamil]

Whether there are deaths or not is not what is at issue here. What is at issue is that there is a red traffic light and 50% of cyclists who should have stopped didn't.

 

By not stopping we send a message that says that we do not believe the rules apply to us - that we are somehow exempt from the law. This has a negative impact on how motorists view cyclists. It also contributes to a culture in which breaking the law is seen as progressively more acceptable. If others don't need to obey the law why should I is the logical response. 

 

If you want to see a more lawful society, start holding yourself and others accountable to obey the law.

 

now we need the DEATH stats, run over stats, accident stats and more for that particular traffic light and cyclists.

 

If the man hugging video maker could provide this too, perhaps as an edit at the end of the clip, that would be great.  

 

But I suppose the ZERO deaths, injuries, accidents or like sort of **** up his video point, even though the riders did cruise through red lights.

[Bonus]

If this guys wants to make documentaries about crime, he should perhaps go and hide-out in the bushes and film

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/166788-brick-thrown-at-rider-on-constantia-nek-hout-bay-side/?source=lfp

 

Jumping red lights is certainly a crime, but throwing rocks at innocent people is a more "interesting" crime

[gummibear]

To all the people hating on the video maker - perhaps it's time for some quiet introspection. There is NO defendable position to take - it's a bunch of people breaking the law and more importantly - acting like selfish twats.

I don't hate the poster but everyone knows that cyclists aren't angels.

 

If only people would use the same effort to fight things like real crime, racism and corruption.

[Wannabe]

If I'm stationary at a Red traffic light, and other cyclists blow through, I make a point at shouting at them, as loud as I can "Hey, that light is red, it means you must stop" 

Had a few motorists standing next to me,  tap the horn and then gives me a thumbs up.

 

So next time you blow through a red traffic light and you hear "Hey, that light is red, it means you must stop" then you must know you just passed me.

 

It peeves me off, especially on this normally busy stretch of Beach rd, when cyclist ignores the traffic laws.

 

Edit: To add to this, the okes sprinting like they are contesting a sprint for a win at the end of a Tour De France stage down this busy stretch, is really Darwin Awards candidates. Cars just pull out of parking bays, or just slam on brakes to pull into an parking bay, motorists getting out of cars and just opening doors, etc. You are really taking chances with your health and well being if you do that. 

Your training ride should be close to over at this stage, you can loose more than gain anything, by going crazy down this stretch.

[Mamil]

It might be me not Wannabe though ...

 

 

If I'm stationary at a Red traffic light, and other cyclists blow through, I make a point at shouting at them, as loud as I can "Hey, that light is red, it means you must stop" 

Had a few motorists standing next to me,  tap the horn and then gives me a thumbs up.

 

So next time you blow through a red traffic light and you hear "Hey, that light is red, it means you must stop" then you must know you just passed me.

 

It peeves me off, especially on this normally busy stretch of Beach rd, when cyclist ignores the traffic laws.

[Eldron]

I don't hate the poster but everyone knows that cyclists aren't angels.

 

If only people would use the same effort to fight things like real crime, racism and corruption.

But you called him guy right? Or at least "implied" he was homosexual? What good do you expect to come from that?

 

There are tons of crimes - you're quite right - but we can solve this one ourselves. If people took the same approach you take to all crime we'd be neck deep (deeper?) in crime....

[gummibear]

But you called him guy right? Or at least "implied" he was homosexual? What good do you expect to come from that?

 

There are tons of crimes - you're quite right - but we can solve this one ourselves. If people took the same approach you take to all crime we'd be neck deep (deeper?) in crime....

Said lt looked like he had a fetish for men wearing lycra with shaved legs....doesnt mean he is gay.

[Eddy Gordo]

I don't hate the poster but everyone knows that cyclists aren't angels.

 

If only people would use the same effort to fight things like real crime, racism and corruption.

[Eldron]

Said lt looked like he had a fetish for men wearing lycra with shaved legs....doesnt mean he is gay.

 

Ahhh the greasy eel response. You should be a politician.

[Pure Savage]

The intersections I can understand, the pedestrian crossings though, aren't those yields for cyclists?

[Simon123]

 

If you want to see a more lawful society, start holding yourself and others accountable to obey the law.

 

When I'm on my gay, oops, road bike, I stop at all lights.

 

But this sort of "policing" does nothing.  It simply makes each side pick up a pitchfork and start shouting at one another, even if most of us cyclists agree.  Furthermore, without anything or a conclusion this video missed the point it could have really driven home.  But I suppose that takes work other than filming on a tripod for an hour or so and then slamming it through Final Cut or whatever.

 

And on lawful... stopping at red lights will not fix other areas.  The enforcement thereof creates a culture of consequence.  I do it because it's the right thing (and ultimately I will live longer in this regard), but that toppie on his S-Works trying to beat his Strava time couldn't care.  Just as people said Guilliani issuing parking tickets reduced the NYC crime rate were proven wrong (damn abortion being legalised 18 years earlier, thanks!), I think education here could work.  And by doing this sort of thing (or enforcing the offenders which would spread like Tokai fire on social media) motorists may give roadies that extra 1m of space they want so bad.

[MTBeer]

I don't hate the poster but everyone knows that cyclists aren't angels.

 

If only people would use the same effort to fight things like real crime, racism and corruption.

I don't understand this logic. That's like saying the cops shouldn't investigate theft because rape and murder are worse crimes.

[Pure Savage]

When I'm on my gay, oops, road bike, I stop at all lights.

 

But this sort of "policing" does nothing.  It simply makes each side pick up a pitchfork and start shouting at one another, even if most of us cyclists agree.  Furthermore, without anything or a conclusion this video missed the point it could have really driven home.  But I suppose that takes work other than filming on a tripod for an hour or so and then slamming it through Final Cut or whatever.

 

And on lawful... stopping at red lights will not fix other areas.  The enforcement thereof creates a culture of consequence.  I do it because it's the right thing (and ultimately I will live longer in this regard), but that toppie on his S-Works trying to beat his Strava time couldn't care.  Just as people said Guilliani issuing parking tickets reduced the NYC crime rate were proven wrong (damn abortion being legalised 18 years earlier, thanks!), I think education here could work.  And by doing this sort of thing (or enforcing the offenders which would spread like Tokai fire on social media) motorists may give roadies that extra 1m of space they want so bad.

 

Agreed. Not the road bike part 

 

The two topics are completely separate and not related. cyclists obeying road rules and cyclist safety.

 

It seems a lot of the safe cycling campaigns are addressing the motorists feelings towards cyclists. Although that is a nice Kum-bai-ja vibe it does not reduce cycling murders. 

 

The "angry towards cyclist drivers" do not murder cyclists, its drivers who think, ja, I am in a hurry, I can squeeze by and then oops, on coming car, then klip cyclist. Driving while using phone, drunk driving etc. People dont think, or engage their brains when they drive. This is why in CT their are more murders of cyclists riding alone than in bigger groups. The bigger groups force drivers to engage their brains and treat the cyclists like a road user that needs to be overtaken etc.

 

If every cyclist obeyed every road rule all the time, the murder rate of cyclists would not decrease. You need an awareness/safe cycling campaign that reduces the murders of cyclists, not just telling cyclists to behave. 

[Mamil]

I'm not sure about this. 

 

I am drawn towards thinking that the more people behave in an orderly fashion the more likely other people are to behave in a similar way. I wonder if the thought "I'm in a hurry I will just squeeze past here" or "I need to call my broker/wife/whatever while I'm driving" might not be as likely to be acted on if the norm was that it is important to follow the laws because everyone else does.

 

I agree with your use of the word murder btw. And it's not just cyclists who are being murdered in this way - all groups of motorists, innocent people are being killed by the culture of lawlessness on the roads.

 

 

 

 

Agreed. Not the road bike part 

 

The two topics are completely separate and not related. cyclists obeying road rules and cyclist safety.

 

It seems a lot of the safe cycling campaigns are addressing the motorists feelings towards cyclists. Although that is a nice Kum-bai-ja vibe it does not reduce cycling murders. 

 

The "angry towards cyclist drivers" do not murder cyclists, its drivers who think, ja, I am in a hurry, I can squeeze by and then oops, on coming car, then klip cyclist. Driving while using phone, drunk driving etc. People dont think, or engage their brains when they drive. This is why in CT their are more murders of cyclists riding alone than in bigger groups. The bigger groups force drivers to engage their brains and treat the cyclists like a road user that needs to be overtaken etc.

 

If every cyclist obeyed every road rule all the time, the murder rate of cyclists would not decrease. You need an awareness/safe cycling campaign that reduces the murders of cyclists, not just telling cyclists to behave. 

[Eldron]

Agreed. Not the road bike part 

 

The two topics are completely separate and not related. cyclists obeying road rules and cyclist safety.

 

It seems a lot of the safe cycling campaigns are addressing the motorists feelings towards cyclists. Although that is a nice Kum-bai-ja vibe it does not reduce cycling murders. 

 

The "angry towards cyclist drivers" do not murder cyclists, its drivers who think, ja, I am in a hurry, I can squeeze by and then oops, on coming car, then klip cyclist. Driving while using phone, drunk driving etc. People dont think, or engage their brains when they drive. This is why in CT their are more murders of cyclists riding alone than in bigger groups. The bigger groups force drivers to engage their brains and treat the cyclists like a road user that needs to be overtaken etc.

 

If every cyclist obeyed every road rule all the time, the murder rate of cyclists would not decrease. You need an awareness/safe cycling campaign that reduces the murders of cyclists, not just telling cyclists to behave. 

 

Maybe if we followed rules like not jumping red lights and they followed rules like not using their phones and drunk driving we'd die less?

 

Sadly, like I said in the Road Carnage thread, I think the problems in SA are so deep and numerous that it isn't something that can be solved in this decade.

 

Still - we should try and I feel keeping our own house clean might compel others to do the same. If it saves just one life it would be worth it. And at what cost? Putting a foot down at a red light and doing a little sprint interval instead of cruising along through it?

[Mamil]

It doesn't just to do this - the many people commenting that this behaviour is unacceptable show that it is possible to be an avid cyclist and see that this behaviour is not cool. 

 

There is nothing aggressive about this video - it shows the situation as it is. It is a kind of citizen journalism showing any given day on that road and many others in the country.

 

The pitchforks come out when people who are being called out on illegal behaviour resort to aggressive retorts, ad hominem attacks or suggestions that he should video the muggers from constantia nek. "Don't point out what I'm doing wrong - there are people doing much worse".

 

It's all just noise disguising the fact that there are a substantial number amongst us who think that we are exempt from traffic laws.

 

 

 

When I'm on my gay, oops, road bike, I stop at all lights.

 

But this sort of "policing" does nothing.  It simply makes each side pick up a pitchfork and start shouting at one another, even if most of us cyclists agree.  Furthermore, without anything or a conclusion this video missed the point it could have really driven home.  But I suppose that takes work other than filming on a tripod for an hour or so and then slamming it through Final Cut or whatever.

 

And on lawful... stopping at red lights will not fix other areas.  The enforcement thereof creates a culture of consequence.  I do it because it's the right thing (and ultimately I will live longer in this regard), but that toppie on his S-Works trying to beat his Strava time couldn't care.  Just as people said Guilliani issuing parking tickets reduced the NYC crime rate were proven wrong (damn abortion being legalised 18 years earlier, thanks!), I think education here could work.  And by doing this sort of thing (or enforcing the offenders which would spread like Tokai fire on social media) motorists may give roadies that extra 1m of space they want so bad.