2018 S-Works Epic FSR ???

[IH8MUD]

 The head angle, meanwhile, was slackened by 1.5 degrees to create an aggressive 69.5-degree angle. Those two changes combine to create a bike that's much more confident at speed and descending through steep and rough terrain. But you're probably thinking, "That slack of a head angle will make a cross country bike floppy and slow, right?" 

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Help me here. Is my understanding wrong? 

 

When you slacken the head angle, is it not more relaxed and slack? 

How does slacking the head angle make it more aggressive?

I though it will now be less aggressive then the previous model? 

Then a line or two later it is slack again? 

 

Looks like marketing vomit . .

[Pure Savage]

Help me here. Is my understanding wrong? 

 

When you slacken the head angle, is not not more relaxed and slack? 

How does slacking the head angle make it more aggressive?

I though it will now be less aggressive then the previous model? 

Then a line or two later it is slack again? 

 

Looks like marketing vomit . .

You going to get a legal letter from the big S soon.

[Rudi Pollard]

Help me here. Is my understanding wrong? 

 

When you slacken the head angle, is it not more relaxed and slack? 

How does slacking the head angle make it more aggressive?

I though it will now be less aggressive then the previous model? 

Then a line or two later it is slack again? 

 

Looks like marketing vomit . .

I think Spez has got themselves between a rock and a hard place here.

 

If you look at what scott did. They created the Scott Spark RC with the racing geometry, and then the lower end Scott Sparks had a more relaxed trail geometry.

 

Specialized relaxed the epic's geometry, but they already have the Camber. So they needed to make sure that it stays more aggressive than the camber but slacker than the previous epic.

 

In a perfect world they should have created the Epic Race and the Epic Trail, effectively taking the Camber's place in the line up... With the Epic becoming slacker, the specialized line up is converging very close to each other...

[stringbean]

Help me here. Is my understanding wrong? 

 

When you slacken the head angle, is it not more relaxed and slack? 

How does slacking the head angle make it more aggressive?

I though it will now be less aggressive then the previous model? 

Then a line or two later it is slack again? 

 

Looks like marketing vomit . .

It's the evolution on 29er geometry.Most bikes have gone this way for 2018.Slacker head angle ,but changing fork rake as well.Changes the bike completely.if you rode a 29er the first year they came out compared to 2 years ago and now to these NEW geometry 29ers it's night and day.

And I'm sure they'll continue to evolve.

[spy]

Help me here. Is my understanding wrong? 

 

When you slacken the head angle, is it not more relaxed and slack? 

How does slacking the head angle make it more aggressive?

I though it will now be less aggressive then the previous model? 

Then a line or two later it is slack again? 

 

Looks like marketing vomit . .

 

not sure what they mean .....but as we know slacker is better .....the part about the 42mm Fork offset is just crazy....you must tighten the trail not increase it....what the bigger offset actually gives you is the equivalent of an even slacker head angle without that sluggishness or floppiness that you would encounter in climbing situations or switchbacks

[stringbean]

So do we all agree that's it's a old design with a paint job that Bogus could replicate with his eyes closed.

[deonkretch]

That colour scheme will go well with a late 90's FPC sleeveless camo shirt... 

Post a pic if you know what I am referring to.

[Headshot]

Help me here. Is my understanding wrong? 

 

When you slacken the head angle, is it not more relaxed and slack? 

How does slacking the head angle make it more aggressive?

I though it will now be less aggressive then the previous model? 

Then a line or two later it is slack again? 

 

Looks like marketing vomit . .

 

It is and it isn't.

 

Obviously it depends on what your definition of "aggressive" geometry is. To me a slacker head angle is more aggressive because it will allow me to tackle steep descents with greater control and speed. 

 

If you want to go OTB with more aggression, by all means tuck the front wheel under the down tube some more :-)

[Headshot]

I think Spez has got themselves between a rock and a hard place here.

 

If you look at what scott did. They created the Scott Spark RC with the racing geometry, and then the lower end Scott Sparks had a more relaxed trail geometry.

 

Specialized relaxed the epic's geometry, but they already have the Camber. So they needed to make sure that it stays more aggressive than the camber but slacker than the previous epic.

 

In a perfect world they should have created the Epic Race and the Epic Trail, effectively taking the Camber's place in the line up... With the Epic becoming slacker, the specialized line up is converging very close to each other...

Not really - 69.5 is still seriously steep - its a far cry from "relaxed trail geo". The camber has  more travel and in 650B guise has a 67.5 HA if memory serves. 

[Headshot]

not sure what they mean .....but as we know slacker is better .....the part about the 42mm Fork offset is just crazy....you must tighten the trail not increase it....what the bigger offset actually gives you is the equivalent of an even slacker head angle without that sluggishness or floppiness that you would encounter in climbing situations or switchbacks

This steering geo stuff is tricky.

 

Deleted a complete nonsense paragraph based on an erroneous reading of the article referred to below :-) 

 

There is a good article on Pinkbike today re Transition Bikes design philosophy on offset and HTA.

[Rudi Pollard]

Not really - 69.5 is still seriously steep - its a far cry from "relaxed trail geo". The camber has  more travel and in 650B guise has a 67.5 HA if memory serves. 

The problem is if they went as slack as the Spark it would've been the same as the camber. They had to stop at 69.5 as the current Camber S-Works is 68.5 degrees... The line up is getting to close to each other.

 

My point was more in the line of the following:

They should have relooked at the entire MTB offering. If they wanted to go 68.5 for the Epic they could have created a Epic Race bike with 100mm travel and an Epic Trail bike matching the current Camber Geo... Very much like what scott did with the Spark. 

 

It will be interesting to see what happens with the camber in a few months... If they relax that further it enters stumpy territory again...

[Patchelicious]

The problem is if they went as slack as the Spark it would've been the same as the camber. They had to stop at 69.5 as the current Camber S-Works is 68.5 degrees... The line up is getting to close to each other.

 

My point was more in the line of the following:

They should have relooked at the entire MTB offering. If they wanted to go 68.5 for the Epic they could have created a Epic Race bike with 100mm travel and an Epic Trail bike matching the current Camber Geo... Very much like what scott did with the Spark. 

 

It will be interesting to see what happens with the camber in a few months... If they relax that further it enters stumpy territory again...

 

Its become known as Cayman/911 Dilemma.

[stringbean]

Specialized got too many bikes in their range.Someone told me the other day there are more than 250 models between men/woman and road etc( which is ironic when your name is Specialized)

[NelAndre]

That colour scheme will go well with a late 90's FPC sleeveless camo shirt... 

Post a pic if you know what I am referring to.

Mine is in Groot Brak ...

[NelAndre]

not sure what they mean .....but as we know slacker is better .....the part about the 42mm Fork offset is just crazy....you must tighten the trail not increase it....what the bigger offset actually gives you is the equivalent of an even slacker head angle without that sluggishness or floppiness that you would encounter in climbing situations or switchbacks

Slacker head angle I understand, but what is fork offset?

[PregoRoll]

Slacker head angle I understand, but what is fork offset?

 

Hope this helps....