How forked is your fork?

[Tankman]

Brunox Deo was developed with and is recommended by Rock Shox.

 

"Gravity will provide all the evidence..." again a statement of opinion and not fact.

 

Great example of statement of opinion and not fact.

 

It's the opinion of the snake oil manufacturer that the suspension manufacturer is recommending their product.

 

Nowhere on the website, owners manual, service manual or any other material, could I find the suspension manufacturer recommend the use of snake oil.

 

However the snake oil manufacturer claims on all its material that their product is recommended by the suspension manufacturer.

 

Let me repeat myself but this time I will add one word:

 

"I dont see any of the Suspension manufacturers recommending the use of external fork lube..."

[madmarc]

I do all my own bike builds and maintenance, but have always stayed clear from stripping forks and shocks. I did venture once and stripped my RP2 shock, and well let just say it didn't end well.

 

Recently my RP2 started losing air on rides and my fork developed an oil weep on the one stantion, so i decided to re-visit doing this service myself.

 

Step 1 - Education - A few youtube videos later i realized the air can service and fork seal service are actually very simple - Just don't touch the dampers uni till you become highly educated on this subject.

 

Step 2 - Finding the correct seal kits - Here the most difficult was identifying the exact year and model of my fork - FOX website is pretty good with this info once you learn how to navigate their website. You also need to know the correct oil volume for your model fork, here again once you know the model and year FOX website will give you this info.

 

Step 3 - buying the seal kits and oil - And this is where it gets crazy ! A seal kit for the fork is 650 ZA Ronds, This is for 2 oil seals 2 wiper rings and 2 crush washers. The Shock seal kit was nearly half the price with triple the amount of seals in the kit. Then there's the recommended FOX oil which no one seems to have in stock.

 

Step 4 - Strip the shock changed the seals and re-assemble in 1 hour. Strip the fork replace the seals and re-assemble in 45 minutes. Everything done cost me about 1300 ZA Ronds, and that includes the 1 litre Motul fork oil i bought instead of FOX oil.

 

So all in all the service for both the shock and fork cost me about 1K and say 2 hours of my time, which includes stripping and re-assembling back on the bike.

 

What gets me is the cost of the seal kits and their recommendation that this should be done every 30 hrs (some say 50 hrs) of riding. In my opinion, one should change the wiper seals and oil every 50 - 60 hrs of riding as the oils seals should still be good to go. maybe the oil seal change every 2nd year.

But you cannot get the wiper seals and crush washer separate so you forced to buy the entire kit and change everything.

 

The LBS make good money doing these services, my last fork service cost me R 1 700.00 and the shock service was not much cheaper. This because like me, virtually everyone thinks its a highly complicated process - But go check out the videos and online instructions, its about as complicated as removing your chain.

[Simon Kolin]

Great example of statement of opinion and not fact.

 

It's the opinion of the snake oil manufacturer that the suspension manufacturer is recommending their product.

 

Nowhere on the website, owners manual, service manual or any other material, could I find the suspension manufacturer recommend the use of snake oil.

 

However the snake oil manufacturer claims on all its material that their product is recommended by the suspension manufacturer.

 

Let me repeat myself but this time I will add one word:

 

"I dont see any of the Suspension manufacturers recommending the use of external fork lube...

 

I suggest, far more reasonably, that if the claim by Brunox that their Deo was developed and recommended by Rock Shox was false and harmful to their products, Rock Shox would have released a statement expressing such.

 

You say that you can't find and Suspension Fork manufacturer that recommends external fork lube....any chance that you could find an example where they explicitly DON'T recommend it??? Until then, calling these products "snake oil" is just your opinion and not factually correct.

 

It's an older link, but here https://www.bikerumor.com/2013/12/04/tech-speak-talking-fork-seals-and-lubrication-with-sram-and-enduro-bearings/

 

SRAM/Rock Shox "...Adding a little lube to the outside of the seals, then pushing on the suspension can help lift a little more dirt out from the seal."

 

Enduro "...In this case, Finish Line Stanchion Lube applied periodically can be helpful."

[GrahamS2]

I suggest, far more reasonably, that if the claim by Brunox that their Deo was developed and recommended by Rock Shox was false and harmful to their products, Rock Shox would have released a statement expressing such.

 

You say that you can't find and Suspension Fork manufacturer that recommends external fork lube....any chance that you could find an example where they explicitly DON'T recommend it??? Until then, calling these products "snake oil" is just your opinion and not factually correct.

 

It's an older link, but here https://www.bikerumor.com/2013/12/04/tech-speak-talking-fork-seals-and-lubrication-with-sram-and-enduro-bearings/

 

SRAM/Rock Shox "...Adding a little lube to the outside of the seals, then pushing on the suspension can help lift a little more dirt out from the seal."

 

Enduro "...In this case, Finish Line Stanchion Lube applied periodically can be helpful."

LOL, that's like saying it's OK to put sugar in your petrol tank, because the owner's manual doesn't explicitly say you shouldn't.

 

I support the use of a stanchion lube, but I also know that most of the 'developed' products are cheap gun oils in a fancy tin (with a fancy price). 

[The Bull Shark]

I try to stay away from all products specially "developed" for cycling. I use my common sense.

 

Specially developed for cycling is just another way to say specially priced for cyclists.

[Simon Kolin]

LOL, that's like saying it's OK to put sugar in your petrol tank, because the owner's manual doesn't explicitly say you shouldn't.

 

I support the use of a stanchion lube, but I also know that most of the 'developed' products are cheap gun oils in a fancy tin (with a fancy price). 

No, not really. None of us are suggesting that sugar would be a sensible fuel additive just because the automotive industry hasn't told us otherwise.

 

It would be a very different conversation if (say) Tongaat Hulett gave out single serving sugar packets, claiming it was "energy for your engine".

 

Do you have any proof to substantiate your claim?

[GrahamS2]

Do you have any proof to substantiate your claim?

 

Brunox Deo, technical datasheet:

 

Aussehen: klar, bläulich

Spez. Gewicht: 0.82 ± 0.02 g/cm3

Viskosität (20 °C): 4 mPas

Flammpunkt: 78 °C (offene Ware)

DIN ISO 2592

Wärmebeständigkeit: bis 150 °C kurzzeitig

bis 120 °C langzeitig

Festpunkt: unter -50 °C

pH-Wert: neutral

Filmeigenschaften: kriechend

Filmdicke: 1 - 2 μm

Ergiebigkeit: 100 - 120 m2/L

Schmierfähigkeit: über 780 kg (Falex-Test)

Konsistenz: Film härtet nicht aus, 64 mPas

 

Brunox Gun Oil, technical datasheet:

 

BRUNOX® Turbo-Spray – 5- function-spray with TURBOLINE –

Appearance: transparent-bluish

Film Thickness: 1 – 2 my

Specific Gravity: 0,81 ± 0,03 g/cm3

Expect Coverage: approx. 100 – 110 m2/l

Viscosity (20oC): 3,6 mPa s

Lubrication Bruggertest DIN 51347: 22 N/mm2  

Flashpoint: 78 °C

Consistence of the film: Film non-hardening

Heat Resistance:

up to 160 °C short time 

up to 125 °C permanent

Dielectric Strength: UD: 45 KV eff-ED: 182 KV eff/cm

Freezing Point: -54 °C

Drying Time: evaporation of the solvents within 2-4 h. H depending on weather conditions

pH-Value: neutral

Corrosion Protection: up to 12 months indoor

Film Property: penetrating

Specification: contains no silicon, PTFE, graphite

 

Like I said, practically the same thing

[NicoBoshoff]

No ways does it pull dirt out from under the seals. If it does, it means your seals are beyond finished. All it's doing is pulling dirt out of the surface of the stanchions.

 

Lubing stanchions from the outside isn't bad idea IMO - just don't make the mistake of thinking it'll replace a service or extend intervals between services.

 

Or do, it's more work for people like me 

Oh look, a measured response.  Run for the hills!!!!

[NicoBoshoff]

Brunox Deo, technical datasheet:

 

Aussehen: klar, bläulich

Spez. Gewicht: 0.82 ± 0.02 g/cm3

Viskosität (20 °C): 4 mPas

Flammpunkt: 78 °C (offene Ware)

DIN ISO 2592

Wärmebeständigkeit: bis 150 °C kurzzeitig

bis 120 °C langzeitig

Festpunkt: unter -50 °C

pH-Wert: neutral

Filmeigenschaften: kriechend

Filmdicke: 1 - 2 μm

Ergiebigkeit: 100 - 120 m2/L

Schmierfähigkeit: über 780 kg (Falex-Test)

Konsistenz: Film härtet nicht aus, 64 mPas

 

Brunox Gun Oil, technical datasheet:

 

BRUNOX® Turbo-Spray – 5- function-spray with TURBOLINE –

Appearance: transparent-bluish

Film Thickness: 1 – 2 my

Specific Gravity: 0,81 ± 0,03 g/cm3

Expect Coverage: approx. 100 – 110 m2/l

Viscosity (20oC): 3,6 mPa s

Lubrication Bruggertest DIN 51347: 22 N/mm2  

Flashpoint: 78 °C

Consistence of the film: Film non-hardening

Heat Resistance:

up to 160 °C short time 

up to 125 °C permanent

Dielectric Strength: UD: 45 KV eff-ED: 182 KV eff/cm

Freezing Point: -54 °C

Drying Time: evaporation of the solvents within 2-4 h. H depending on weather conditions

pH-Value: neutral

Corrosion Protection: up to 12 months indoor

Film Property: penetrating

Specification: contains no silicon, PTFE, graphite

 

Like I said, practically the same thing

I gather you can explain what each of those data statements mean and why they're "basically the same"?  I can see the numbers are almost the same, but for all I know those small variances mean a lot in the lubricant world.  I don't know. I'm not an expert, but I gather you are.

 

Or are the common cold and the flu  "basically the same"?  To me, yes.  To a Doctor, who actually knows what the hell they're talking about? Doubtful.

[Sparky and the Warden]

@Tankman

 

What is your opinion on SKF seals? Worth the investment?

I've used skf wasn't impressed didn't even make the service interval and they were shot... Maybe just my bad luck...

[GrahamS2]

I gather you can explain what each of those data statements mean and why they're "basically the same"?  I can see the numbers are almost the same, but for all I know those small variances mean a lot in the lubricant world.  I don't know. I'm not an expert, but I gather you are.

 

Or are the common cold and the flu  "basically the same"?  To me, yes.  To a Doctor, who actually knows what the hell they're talking about? Doubtful.

They smell the same and are the same colour. Must be identical! 

[NicoBoshoff]

They smell the same and are the same colour. Must be identical! 

Good enough for me.

[Simon Kolin]

They smell the same and are the same colour. Must be identical! 

 

[droo]

They smell the same and are the same colour. Must be identical! 

 

Oddly enough, where oils are concerned it's a pretty good indicator.

[droo]

I do all my own bike builds and maintenance, but have always stayed clear from stripping forks and shocks. I did venture once and stripped my RP2 shock, and well let just say it didn't end well.

 

Recently my RP2 started losing air on rides and my fork developed an oil weep on the one stantion, so i decided to re-visit doing this service myself.

 

Step 1 - Education - A few youtube videos later i realized the air can service and fork seal service are actually very simple - Just don't touch the dampers uni till you become highly educated on this subject.

 

Step 2 - Finding the correct seal kits - Here the most difficult was identifying the exact year and model of my fork - FOX website is pretty good with this info once you learn how to navigate their website. You also need to know the correct oil volume for your model fork, here again once you know the model and year FOX website will give you this info.

 

Step 3 - buying the seal kits and oil - And this is where it gets crazy ! A seal kit for the fork is 650 ZA Ronds, This is for 2 oil seals 2 wiper rings and 2 crush washers. The Shock seal kit was nearly half the price with triple the amount of seals in the kit. Then there's the recommended FOX oil which no one seems to have in stock.

 

Step 4 - Strip the shock changed the seals and re-assemble in 1 hour. Strip the fork replace the seals and re-assemble in 45 minutes. Everything done cost me about 1300 ZA Ronds, and that includes the 1 litre Motul fork oil i bought instead of FOX oil.

 

So all in all the service for both the shock and fork cost me about 1K and say 2 hours of my time, which includes stripping and re-assembling back on the bike.

 

What gets me is the cost of the seal kits and their recommendation that this should be done every 30 hrs (some say 50 hrs) of riding. In my opinion, one should change the wiper seals and oil every 50 - 60 hrs of riding as the oils seals should still be good to go. maybe the oil seal change every 2nd year.

But you cannot get the wiper seals and crush washer separate so you forced to buy the entire kit and change everything.

 

The LBS make good money doing these services, my last fork service cost me R 1 700.00 and the shock service was not much cheaper. This because like me, virtually everyone thinks its a highly complicated process - But go check out the videos and online instructions, its about as complicated as removing your chain.

 

Bear in mind when making price comparisons that the service you've done on your shock is far from a full rebuild - you haven't touched the damper, which is the important bit. Special tools, nitrogen charging equipment and another seal kit needed.

 

Same may apply to the fork - if it's a FIT damper you've only done half the service.

[Skylark]

Be very careful when making a comment of option sound like a blanket statement of fact for such products. There is nothing wrong with an application of external fork lube if used correctly. I agree that given certain conditions (used on a fork that has not been cleaned of dirt/dust), an external lube could cause issues...in exactly the same way that lube can cause issues with a chain and attract more dirt.

 

Use any lube in moderation and only when the area of application is clean and dry.

 

It would be interesting to see if there was any evidence that turning a bicycle upside down allowed the oil to soak the foam rings and displace external contamination?

Simon, aren't you the importer of Brunox or connected to them?

Nothing like a little conflict of interest to bring things to light..