New standards and why we need/don't need them

[Headshot]

As you may know I recently had a warranty replacement courtesy of Specialized ZA. I have gone from A 26" 160mm travel bike with a 66.5 HTA and QR135 rear end to a bang up to date 170mm Boost equipped 27.5 beast. Here are the pros and cons I have picked up this far:

 

Pros:

A few things which stand out. The new shock is awesome. Bike pedals better than ever and the three position settings make a very noticeable difference. The geometry is great. The slacker head angle doesn't make a jot of difference to climbing performance. Steeper seat angle makes climbing position even better than before and the increased reach is just right. My first experience of SRAM brake and shifting is also very positive. The shifting is superb and down shifting has a very light touch. The Yari fork is also lovely. The simple compression adjust dial is all I need and adding tokens is super simple. (Now running two to experiment)

 

Cons: Why boost? The back end of the bike is wider and I tap my heels from time to time on the seat stays. No biggie. Weight! 2.6 tyres and boost hubs add weight. Why do I need these heavy pressure sensitive things on my bike? As an experiment i weighed the complete wheel package off my old bike and the new one. There is a 650g penalty with 27.5 Boost and 2.6 tyres. The old wheels were not the lightest and one tyre is a super gravity casing. The Boost wheels have a lower spoke count too. 

 

So far my experience just confirms my preconceived attitude to some so-called advancements in bike technology. Its s slippery slope. Next thing you're saving for carbon rims to lose that extra boost weight and retain stiffness for the lower spoke count, when all you actually need is standard spacing 32 spoke 26" wheels to get the same or better. 

 

Thoughts? 

[Duane_Bosch]

Can

 

Worms

 

You've just opened it.

[Letum911]

 

Thoughts? 

 

It's not Friday yet!!

[droo]

Did the new bike make you faster?

[Kona Kula]

Did the new bike make you faster?

Or, did the new bike make you look faster.

[Headshot]

Did the new bike make you faster?

 

 

So far not but the rider is very slow at the moment so maybe that's all it is... 

 

By the way I have by no means formed a cast iron opinion on the benefits of all this new stuff or lack thereof.

 

Some proper riding on steeper trails with some big rocks is in order. I do need to let my collar bone fuse thoroughly before that though...

 

Something else that springs to mind - why have a nice stiff boost rear axle and then make the back end feel all vague and wallow prone with a big fat tyre? 

[droo]

Or, did the new bike make you look faster.

 

These are the important questions...

 

Since it's not Friday though, here's my take:

 

If innovation didn't happen, we'd still be on 100mm stems and 580 wide bars, 17mm would be considered wide for a rim, and 60mm travel would be considered a downhill fork and weigh 2.5 kg.

 

That said, most of these things can be retrofitted on a piece-by-piece basis, rather than having to buy a whole new bike every year - the ones that annoy me are the ones that interrupt the upgrade path without providing a workable alternative, like RS only producing Boost forks for 2018.

 

But I guess it's the same with anything - if you want the latest and greatest, you're going to have to cough for it. MTB does have the downside of being one of the more expensive sports out there to start with though, so best you have a fat wallet if you're going to keep up.

 

Otherwise - just ride your bike. If you're competing at the sharp end and the marginal gains are actually going to make a difference, you should be looking at sponsorships anyway. For the weekend warriors, ride what you can afford - or remortgage your house and risk feeling a right poephol when someone like Nils gives you a sound spanking on a steel HT.

[Meezo]

nice meeting you Saturday, hope the old boys meeting went well

[Patchelicious]

Did the new bike make you faster ride more?

If yes, who cares about the rest.

[Headshot]

These are the important questions...

 

Since it's not Friday though, here's my take:

 

If innovation didn't happen, we'd still be on 100mm stems and 580 wide bars, 17mm would be considered wide for a rim, and 60mm travel would be considered a downhill fork and weigh 2.5 kg.

 

That said, most of these things can be retrofitted on a piece-by-piece basis, rather than having to buy a whole new bike every year - the ones that annoy me are the ones that interrupt the upgrade path without providing a workable alternative, like RS only producing Boost forks for 2018.

 

But I guess it's the same with anything - if you want the latest and greatest, you're going to have to cough for it. MTB does have the downside of being one of the more expensive sports out there to start with though, so best you have a fat wallet if you're going to keep up.

 

Otherwise - just ride your bike. If you're competing at the sharp end and the marginal gains are actually going to make a difference, you should be looking at sponsorships anyway. For the weekend warriors, ride what you can afford.

No arguments there although I think you can separate innovations that are universally beneficial like good brakes/suspension/tyres/geo vs those that provide such marginal gains, most of us don't even notice. 

 

Sorry to harp on about boost, but it seems to me that its there for 29ers and the ability to run plus sized tyres on 27.5. My bike has such massive clearance I could probably run 3" tyres on it. Something I would never ever do of course, unless they came with a free electric motor...

[Capricorn]

As you may know I recently had a warranty replacement courtesy of Specialized ZA. I have gone from A 26" 160mm travel bike with a 66.5 HTA and QR135 rear end to a bang up to date 170mm Boost equipped 27.5 beast. Here are the pros and cons I have picked up this far:

 

Pros:

A few things which stand out. The new shock is awesome. Bike pedals better than ever and the three position settings make a very noticeable difference. The geometry is great. The slacker head angle doesn't make a jot of difference to climbing performance. Steeper seat angle makes climbing position even better than before and the increased reach is just right. My first experience of SRAM brake and shifting is also very positive. The shifting is superb and down shifting has a very light touch. The Yari fork is also lovely. The simple compression adjust dial is all I need and adding tokens is super simple. (Now running two to experiment)

 

Cons: Why boost? The back end of the bike is wider and I tap my heels from time to time on the seat stays. No biggie. Weight! 2.6 tyres and boost hubs add weight. Why do I need these heavy pressure sensitive things on my bike? As an experiment i weighed the complete wheel package off my old bike and the new one. There is a 650g penalty with 27.5 Boost and 2.6 tyres. The old wheels were not the lightest and one tyre is a super gravity casing. The Boost wheels have a lower spoke count too. 

 

So far my experience just confirms my preconceived attitude to some so-called advancements in bike technology. Its s slippery slope. Next thing you're saving for carbon rims to lose that extra boost weight and retain stiffness for the lower spoke count, when all you actually need is standard spacing 32 spoke 26" wheels to get the same or better. 

 

Thoughts? 

 

you tap your heels on the seatstays?   Chainstays perhaps? 

 

Boost is a necessary innovation in light of 29er wheels, which in itself, was marketeered half baked and on a dodgy basis. In fact,based on Bill Shook's perspective on wheel spoke triangulation shows boost spacing itself is, while closer to the heart of what constitutes a good wheel build, is not quite there. (shook believes that while wider is better, symmetry is more important. fancy spoke setups are just workarounds to the lack of symmetry).

 

When it comes to trail riding, XCO/XCM, there's no denying that a larger wheel diameter does provide better rolling given the 'standard' size of obstacles. but because of its half baked nature, there's still quite a lot of optimization that will come with product maturity.

[Headshot]

you tap your heels on the seatstays?    Chainstays perhaps? 

 

I think its my heels and the seat stays. The stays and pivot points are big and fat and quite low...

[Odinson]

you tap your heels on the seatstays?    Chainstays perhaps? 

 

I think its my heels and the seat stays. The stays and pivot points are big and fat and quite low...

 

My bike has a Boost back end and I run flat pedals. Noticed the other day that I was in fact scuffing the seat stays. Never even noticed it during riding. 

[GrahamS2]

I can only comment on boost in a 29" application, but the added wheel stiffness is clearly noticeable. From the reading I did you gain 23% lateral stiffness on a 29" wheel, which makes it about as stiff as a 26er was (like for like, obviously). That's a win in my books! The wider fork track also beefs things up somewhat in the steering department.

 

Wheel stiffness has been a bugbear of mine on 29" bikes, and boost essentially resolves that. So I see it as a good thing. 

[Capricorn]

you tap your heels on the seatstays?    Chainstays perhaps? 

 

I think its my heels and the seat stays. The stays and pivot points are big and fat and quite low...

 

 

My bike has a Boost back end and I run flat pedals. Noticed the other day that I was in fact scuffing the seat stays. Never even noticed it during riding. 

 

jeepers. that's pretty hectic. On my DH bike, my heels used to hit the chainstay, and that had a 150mm spacing.But never the seat stay.  Perhaps because the boosted frames are designed to accomodate some big meats. Then again, 26ers also had some seriously massive big meats back in the day. So still abit surprised chainstays are starting to rub. anyway, Maybe someone will design shoes with ''stay clearance cutouts"

 

i think one of the bigger, universally applicable developments was forward geometry, as I think it resolved a problem many didn't realize they had: balance on the bike.

[Headshot]

My bike has a Boost back end and I run flat pedals. Noticed the other day that I was in fact scuffing the seat stays. Never even noticed it during riding. 

 

I noticed it on mine immediately but only on one side... added some scuff tape in the general area.

 

I don't doubt that Boost has some benefits  - like 29er wheel stiffness. I cant help wondering why then we should stuff it up with fat wobbly tyres and lower spoke counts (my new wheels are 24f/28r like my road bike). 

 

That said, I haven't written anything off yet. The big tyres may well prove to be a major boon on loose rocky terrain and now that the pressure is better the bikes not bounding off stuff like I did at first.