Chris Froome returns adverse analytical finding for Salbutamol

[Bateleur1]

Would actually like to hear some medical input from V12man now.  Weather this is plausable.

[Patchelicious]

Would actually like to hear some medical input from V12man now.  Weather this is plausable.

He gave some good input before, which was discarded by many as it didnt fit their opinions.

[Patchelicious]

Patch, this sky stuff really gets you hot under the collar   

 

Read my post again, I made it pretty clear that I doubt any of them are clean.

 

And I have no issue with Sky personally - I've defended them plenty when accusations are unfounded.

 

This is not unfounded stuff though... this is a problem. 

 

And anybody on this planet who was ending up no2 in races behind someone 'bust for doping' would not be happy or quiet about it. That's what I was saying.

 

It has little to do with SKY. Like with all teams. They must get what is coming to them if they deserve it. 

 

Let me make it very clear what gets me hot under the collar. People's unbalanced attacks on anybody and hypocrisy is what gets me hot under the collar.

 

Its something that people like ignoring, as painting me (incorrectly) as a SKY supporter makes it easier for them to dismiss my view as that of a "fanboy" which makes it easier for them argue with me. 

 

You might defend SKY, I dont, I am trying to defend objectivity and fair/even debate.

If people claim to be "anti doping" but only attack one team, then you are not really anti doping. You are using the anti doping banner to justify your attack in somebody you simply dislike.

[Eldron]

It has little to do with SKY. Like with all teams. They must get what is coming to them if they deserve it. 

 

Let me make it very clear what gets me hot under the collar. People's unbalanced attacks on anybody and hypocrisy is what gets me hot under the collar.

 

Its something that people like ignoring, as painting me (incorrectly) as a SKY supporter makes it easier for them to dismiss my view as that of a "fanboy" which makes it easier for them argue with me. 

 

You might defend SKY, I dont, I am trying to defend objectivity and fair/even debate.

If people claim to be "anti doping" but only attack one team, then you are not really anti doping. You are using the anti doping banner to justify your attack in somebody you simply dislike.

 

Bold AND underlined - she IS hot under the collar!!!

[VicanZA]

doesn't matter how this turn out, cycling will go on.

 

hoping for the good old lance days, this marginal gains sucks hand bags. 

[Bonus]

I see the Giro organizers are now putting pressure on the UCI to resolve this:

 

The director of the Giro d’Italia Mauro Vegni has said that the UCI must "sort out" Chris Froome's salbutamol case before the start of this year's Italian Grand Tour. He reiterated that he cannot accept a "compromise solution" that would allow Froome to ride and possibly win the Giro d'Italia only to lose his victory due to a positive anti-doping result from another race, which is what happened to Alberto Contador in 2011.

 

This makes sense. These GT's are huge business and no one wants another "Pink/Yellow/Red Jersey awarded to the guy who originally came second but is now the winner 'cos the guy who won on the day was on his way to being banned for a previous infraction and has now finally been found guilty" scenario.

[Eldron]

This makes sense. These GT's are huge business and no one wants another "Pink/Yellow/Red Jersey awarded to the guy who originally came second but is now the winner 'cos the guy who won on the day was on his way to being banned for a previous infraction and has now finally been found guilty" scenario.

 

Agreed.

 

Chris has given his "defence" now get him in a UCI lab and make him show us how he got 2000 of the salbutamols into his pee.

 

If he does case closed - if he doesn't immediate sanction (they can discuss potential sanctions now already).

 

Either way - it MUST be done before the Giro starts.

[EmptyB]

This makes sense. These GT's are huge business and no one wants another "Pink/Yellow/Red Jersey awarded to the guy who originally came second but is now the winner 'cos the guy who won on the day was on his way to being banned for a previous infraction and has now finally been found guilty" scenario.

 

Exactly.....sort this sh*t out already!! 

[SwissVan]

Looks like Chris saw my post and wanted in on the list.

 

The - "My kidneys malfunctioned and released massive amounts of Salbutamol while I climbed at 7w/kg and rode 21 seconds into my nearest competitor" is a pretty good entry.

 

Normally, when kidneys malfunction you get a transplant, or go on dialysis, or get EPO (hang on - I see where this is going...).

Do you have a source that backs up the 7W /Kg claim, that’s the realm of world class / world champions

[V12man]

Would actually like to hear some medical input from V12man now.  Weather this is plausable.

It is plausable - but I guess I am not the best person to comment - need a Nephrologist to comment.

 

What I do know is that kidneys are hugely sensitive in terms of function, and really really easy to upset - it's entirely possible that Chris was taking some other (legal) substance that affects the kidney function hugely - so perhaps a NSAID which would reduce hepatic function, and by implication kidney function is reduced and not clearing properly - during an extended race where dehydration could be a factor this could also impact kidney function.

 

What we do know is that salbutamol excretion is HUGELY variable - especially where exercise is involved.

 

To me - the issue is really whether salbutamol improves performance over and above what a person is capable of - and it's pretty clear it does not do that - in reality - the contrary is more true - heart rates are elevated (even at rest), and you would not feel great at those doses - jittery and hyper - and sleeping is affected badly.

[Patchelicious]

Do you have a source that backs up the 7W /Kg claim, that’s the realm of world class / world champions

Yes, the Dr Swart test showed this HOWEVER, its was his PPO, NOT his sustained effort....

 

When people conflate 5min efforts with sustained 40min efforts to make a point, you need to ask why they are doing that.

 

http://www.bicycling.co.za/news-people/people/exclusive-q-bicyclings-jeroen-swart-chris-froomes-testing/

 

 

His 20min - 40min effort was 419w at 69,9kg, which works out to 5.9w/kg.

 

Again, I am NOT defending Froome, I am merely correcting intentionally misquoted information.

[V12man]

He gave some good input before, which was discarded by many as it didnt fit their opinions.

Some people would rather believe google's diagnosis than a doctor.... it is what it is, but they eventually come around....

 

Speculating is just not really my thing - if I were to speculate in a negative way, I would think someone put him on a nebuliser the night before and they added salbutamol to the mix or he took oral salbutamol... and forgot to do the TUE doc.

 

NEITHER of those have been published by Sky or Chris - and given the variability of salbutamol clearance, I suspect it's not even necessary to do anything illegal and still get those levels on occasion - BUT - proving that in a lab would be extremely difficult to do - and my guess is they (sky)  have tried already to replicate the clearance in a lab - and have not published the results.

[Patchelicious]

It is plausable - but I guess I am not the best person to comment - need a Nephrologist to comment.

 

What I do know is that kidneys are hugely sensitive in terms of function, and really really easy to upset - it's entirely possible that Chris was taking some other (legal) substance that affects the kidney function hugely - so perhaps a NSAID which would reduce hepatic function, and by implication kidney function is reduced and not clearing properly - during an extended race where dehydration could be a factor this could also impact kidney function.

 

What we do know is that salbutamol excretion is HUGELY variable - especially where exercise is involved.

 

To me - the issue is really whether salbutamol improves performance over and above what a person is capable of - and it's pretty clear it does not do that - in reality - the contrary is more true - heart rates are elevated (even at rest), and you would not feel great at those doses - jittery and hyper - and sleeping is affected badly.

 

WTF do you know!!! I raced in BL, have NO medical experience, but your educated and factual response is not in line with what I want to believe, so STFU! You are obviously a fanboy!

[Andrew Steer]

It is plausable - but I guess I am not the best person to comment - need a Nephrologist to comment.

 

What I do know is that kidneys are hugely sensitive in terms of function, and really really easy to upset - it's entirely possible that Chris was taking some other (legal) substance that affects the kidney function hugely - so perhaps a NSAID which would reduce hepatic function, and by implication kidney function is reduced and not clearing properly - during an extended race where dehydration could be a factor this could also impact kidney function.

 

What we do know is that salbutamol excretion is HUGELY variable - especially where exercise is involved.

 

To me - the issue is really whether salbutamol improves performance over and above what a person is capable of - and it's pretty clear it does not do that - in reality - the contrary is more true - heart rates are elevated (even at rest), and you would not feel great at those doses - jittery and hyper - and sleeping is affected badly.

 

Always good to get your informed views...

 

Can you think of any reason why it would have suddenly happened this day... conditions seemed fine, stage wasn't particularly hard or long - seems incredibly unlikely to me that it would suddenly happen out of the blue?

 

I mean he's never tested even a tiny bit over the limit, and now he's suddenly double it?

Or we talking so variable that 1 day in a blue moon excretion will be 5 times higher for no particular reason? Does the current limit take into account how variable the excretion can be?

If not surely we'd get this happening a lot more often

[Stoli]

It has little to do with SKY. Like with all teams. They must get what is coming to them if they deserve it. 

 

Let me make it very clear what gets me hot under the collar. People's unbalanced attacks on anybody and hypocrisy is what gets me hot under the collar.

 

Its something that people like ignoring, as painting me (incorrectly) as a SKY supporter makes it easier for them to dismiss my view as that of a "fanboy" which makes it easier for them argue with me. 

 

You might defend SKY, I dont, I am trying to defend objectivity and fair/even debate.

If people claim to be "anti doping" but only attack one team, then you are not really anti doping. You are using the anti doping banner to justify your attack in somebody you simply dislike.

Very dramatic...

[s14phoenix]

Guess it is all still being investigated for all the reasons listed.

 

Banned substances are banned and thus if found guilty punishment has to be levied against the guilty.

 

I will wait for the verdict and see what happens from there. I have to just add that I am sure his data and testing is extremely closely inspected by everyone and the pressure of being under the microscope 24/7 would have seen my kidneys also fail from sheer stress nevermind what they will find in my bloodsteam... (disclaimer that this is not an admission of guilt to any substance abuse on my part)

 

As a FAN (deal with it) of his work I will be very sad if found guilty and sanctioned...