Jewbacca Posted May 10, 2018 Share Yoh... This thread has blown up. Pretty sad based on the fact that it is about an inclusion of children in a sport they, and we, all love. Imagine being told you can't race the Epic because you pay PAYE and not income tax? This is pathetic. Fighting is also pathetic. Some guy wants his passionate daughter to race against her peers. There is a pathetic ruling that only 1 province has which denies them this and suddenly she/they are the bad ones for asking for that rule to be looked at and run in conjunction with the rest of the country. Shame on you all for letting this get bigger than it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skubarra Posted May 10, 2018 Share Now a bunch of dis-organised mom's and dad's representing just their own Little Johnny interests are demanding to be allowed on board. They are not bringing an established sport organisation/infrastructure, they do not have a sustainable sports programme and they cannot be encouraged to include a "representativity" element (which is standard in most schools these days). So what are they actually bringing to the party? Just little Johny.... Paddaman - I agree with the rest of your post. The idea that it is a team & school league initiative as opposed to cater for individuals wasn't clear to me when this thread started. But I also don't see anything constructive in attacking home school parents like this (also not the "sod off this was your choice" reply from others). Surely for the greater good of mtb'ing develoment something can be arranged for home schoolers that would not disrupt the existing school league, especially as there is already some kind of arrangement in the other provinces (even if the ghost rider thing is not ideal?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen Posted May 10, 2018 Share If the issue is around overall points for schools competing against each other, the simply move the points over from any home school kids to the next "schooled" kid in line....that way it will not ruin the schools rankings between each other and will allow youngsters to grow in a sport they love.I asked this earlier, maybe you know.what is the min amount of riders that a school have to have to enter the league.? Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PygaSchmyga Posted May 10, 2018 Share Ama-zzzzing, how we argue past one another and fail to READ.The purpose and mission of the Spur INTER-SCHOOL League is to get schools to accept TEAM MTB as a main stream sport, and thereby allocate SCHOOL resources to this sport, being a school coach, school teacher, school bus ext.As far as the purpose and mission they have done very well. They have effectively reduced the load on "cycling-parents" and placed it onto the school infrastructure, which is good. Furthermore, they have removed the "stigma" from MTB as a individual/narcissistic sport and put it into a context where school reputation and honour can be achieved. Also a major win for a fringe sport like MTB. So far so good. Everyone seems to be winning and the programme seems to be achieving its purpose. But it is too successful. Now a bunch of dis-organised mom's and dad's representing just their own Little Johnny interests are demanding to be allowed on board. They are not bringing an established sport organisation/infrastructure, they do not have a sustainable sports programme and they cannot be encouraged to include a "representativity" element (which is standard in most schools these days). So what are they actually bringing to the party? Just little Johny.... So from a organiser's point of view Homeschoolers are simply not a viable market. (They are already accommodated in the CSA provincial structures anyway). For this league the target market is the school headmasters and school sport masters and not the individual cyclists.Succinctly put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddaman Posted May 10, 2018 Share If the issue is around overall points for schools competing against each other, the simply move the points over from any home school kids to the next "schooled" kid in line....that way it will not ruin the schools rankings between each other and will allow youngsters to grow in a sport they love.Again, that is not the purpose of the league. It is about establishing a sustainable, accessible and equitable sport (MTB) infrastructure at schools. By having the league, it is hoped that schools will invest in MTB as a mainstream sport. The process of getting a sport registered at a school as a school sport is an often long and arduous task. Sufficient parents must indicate that they want the sport. Then a preliminary trial period is given for the sport to establish itself. Once a footprint is established only then resources are allocated (such as budget, bus, terrain, store rooms ext). During this birthing, parents from the other sport disciplines may actively or passively attempt to sabotage its growth (due to the threat of loss of budget. Rugby, for instance, is such a sport that is feeling the pinch) If the sport discipline does not draw enpugh participants and does not post sufficient results it is canned. Thus a league like the Spur Inter School league is an attempt to provide a context in which parents can operate to establish MTB as a school sport AND IS DESIGNED AS SUCH. It's purpose was never to accommodate home schooled kids or individual kids, and now to insist otherwise is like using a scapel as a bread knife, or even worse like "kissing your sister" or using a pony as a race horse. It might work but it is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy Posted May 10, 2018 Share School A and school B are evenly matched in the Spur schools MTB league. School A 'obtains' the services of a talented and well trained home schooled pupil. B narrowly looses the league to A. So, is it wrong for the parents, pupils and coaches of B to feel pissed off? I think that it is common cause that a home schooled child should not "represent" a school, but what about entering as an individual ? Here is a real life example of what MAY be behind the ban. I don't support the ban, let kids have fun in a competitive environment. It teaches them important life lessons I have a friend whose 11 year old daughter is an extremely talented ballerina. She and the cream of the region's young dancers all auditioned for something It became very clear early on that the two home-schooled girls were streets ahead of those who had to fit ballet in around school hours, school sport & extramural activities. The home-schooled girls justifiably were selected, they were much better because they were training 4 or 5 hours a day not an hour 3 times a week and 2 hours on Saturday. Maybe the same applied to an individual homeschooled cyclist and someone over reacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddaman Posted May 10, 2018 Share Paddaman - I agree with the rest of your post. The idea that it is a team & school league initiative as opposed to cater for individuals wasn't clear to me when this thread started. But I also don't see anything constructive in attacking home school parents like this (also not the "sod off this was your choice" reply from others). Surely for the greater good of mtb'ing develoment something can be arranged for home schoolers that would not disrupt the existing school league, especially as there is already some kind of arrangement in the other provinces (even if the ghost rider thing is not ideal?)If the home schooled parents were better organised and the could present themselves as a BONO FIDE instiution/organisation with the ability to establish a sustainable MTB development programme, I am sure the story would be different. But the last thing any league organiser wants is to have to negotiate with individuals and have endless loose threads and queries about why this and not that. I am not saying that the parents are disorganised regarding their own interests, I am saying they are not organised around their collective interests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Steer Posted May 10, 2018 Share Imagine being told you can't race the Epic because you pay PAYE and not income tax?It's more a case of being told you can't ride the Epic as you don't have a partner... or being told you can't run Comrades because you are not part of a running club. Both which are funnily enough rules... If you really want pathetic, go read the Facebook reviews on the Spurs School Mtb League Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SpurMTBLeague/?hc_ref=ARS-08_PTiFzICmHFpMyR-9pBzlUWagOjoYOlXlWUx4iYoBs5BUCoahtotR9ilPBgwY&fref=nf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamS2 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Again, that is not the purpose of the league. It is about establishing a sustainable, accessible and equitable sport (MTB) infrastructure at schools. By having the league, it is hoped that schools will invest in MTB as a mainstream sport. The process of getting a sport registered at a school as a school sport is an often long and arduous task. Sufficient parents must indicate that they want the sport. Then a preliminary trial period is given for the sport to establish itself. Once a footprint is established only then resources are allocated (such as budget, bus, terrain, store rooms ext). During this birthing, parents from the other sport disciplines may actively or passively attempt to sabotage its growth (due to the threat of loss of budget. Rugby, for instance, is such a sport that is feeling the pinch) If the sport discipline does not draw enpugh participants and does not post sufficient results it is canned. Thus a league like the Spur Inter School league is an attempt to provide a context in which parents can operate to establish MTB as a school sport AND IS DESIGNED AS SUCH. It's purpose was never to accommodate home schooled kids or individual kids, and now to insist otherwise is like using a scapel as a bread knife, or even worse like "kissing your sister" or using a pony as a race horse. It might work but it is just wrong.Give this man a Bells! And, the spin off of this league is getting schools to invest in pump tracks and trail days, which I've seen a lot of recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickGM Posted May 10, 2018 Share Ama-zzzzing, how we argue past one another and fail to READ.The purpose and mission of the Spur INTER-SCHOOL League is to get schools to accept TEAM MTB as a main stream sport, and thereby allocate SCHOOL resources to this sport, being a school coach, school teacher, school bus ext.As far as the purpose and mission they have done very well. They have effectively reduced the load on "cycling-parents" and placed it onto the school infrastructure, which is good. Furthermore, they have removed the "stigma" from MTB as a individual/narcissistic sport and put it into a context where school reputation and honour can be achieved. Also a major win for a fringe sport like MTB. So far so good. Everyone seems to be winning and the programme seems to be achieving its purpose. But it is too successful. Now a bunch of dis-organised mom's and dad's representing just their own Little Johnny interests are demanding to be allowed on board. They are not bringing an established sport organisation/infrastructure, they do not have a sustainable sports programme and they cannot be encouraged to include a "representativity" element (which is standard in most schools these days). So what are they actually bringing to the party? Just little Johny.... So from a organiser's point of view Homeschoolers are simply not a viable market. (They are already accommodated in the CSA provincial structures anyway). For this league the target market is the school headmasters and school sport masters and not the individual cyclists.Some valid points (IMO) and I hear you. However, every other province allows homeschoolers to compete. So if I were in the OP's position, I'd just want to know the reason why this is not the case in GP, and if it can be changed without upsetting the applecart or at detriment to the (well-organised and much-appreciated) Spur School series. That's it. It's a fair question. All emotion and finger pointing should be left at the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Gordo Posted May 10, 2018 Share Yoh... This thread has blown up. Pretty sad based on the fact that it is about an inclusion of children in a sport they, and we, all love. Imagine being told you can't race the Epic because you pay PAYE and not income tax? This is pathetic. Fighting is also pathetic. Some guy wants his passionate daughter to race against her peers. There is a pathetic ruling that only 1 province has which denies them this and suddenly she/they are the bad ones for asking for that rule to be looked at and run in conjunction with the rest of the country. Shame on you all for letting this get bigger than it is.Extremely sad, slightly off topic. My son was playing soccer and cricket, and if I must say myself was very talented. He played for Santos when they were still here, thoroughly enjoyed it, and then moved on to Ajax Cape Town juniors, which he also loved. Along the way he started playing cricket, started at primroses which was great, but he wanted more in terms of coaching and games, so we joined him at WPCC, and I will say that was a massive mistake. I should of left him at primroses. WPCC messed him up so bad, he no longer has a love for team sports. I find it pathetic that adults get in the way of kids enjoying themselves, extremely shelfish!!!Well anyway, he decided he is gonna play golf after I introduced him to it. Just a pity that the drought has put a hold on most tournaments this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddaman Posted May 10, 2018 Share It's more a case of being told you can't ride the Epic as you don't have a partner... or being told you can't run Comrades because you are not part of a running club. Both which are funnily enough rules... If you really want pathetic, go read the Facebook reviews on the Spurs School Mtb League Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SpurMTBLeague/?hc_ref=ARS-08_PTiFzICmHFpMyR-9pBzlUWagOjoYOlXlWUx4iYoBs5BUCoahtotR9ilPBgwY&fref=nf You can run comrades without being part of a club, however you will be known as a ghost/pirate runner, will not qualify for a medal and can be removed from the race at anytime....or you could just ran from PMB to DBN alone on any day other than 16 Jun 2018 (and not pass start and not get a medal either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porqui Posted May 10, 2018 Share What could/should be done is that the home schoolers should organize themselves into a "club" and then enter the league as a "school" as they are all registered with the dept of education as schoolers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave303e Posted May 10, 2018 Share oooooh anyone see the latest comment on the fb page?***runs to find some popcorn**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddaman Posted May 10, 2018 Share I can understand why Gauteng may be reluctant to allow homeschoolers: 1. They have achieved the planned results and unlike other provinces simply cannot accommodate more.2. They have done the sums and realised that to include them is more effort than it is worth. (Smaller provinces however may need the numbers to fill the race billets) (Any Vaalie that has raced in the EC has experienced the difference in numbers)3. There may be school rules specific to Gauteng that cannot be skirted as easily as in other provinces (partially due to parents willing to litigate) Also there may be other roleplayers such as CSA PPA ext that restrict their room for manuevre on the issue.4. The pressure from homeschoolers is simply unco-ordinated and is seen as a nuisance factor (see point 2), and homeschoolers have not presented their collective case well enough.5. The administration to remove the homeschoolers from the results list puts unnecessary load on the event organisers and See point 2.6. Homeschoolers as they are currently organised simply do not satisfy the stated purpose of the league, and therefore are by definition disqualified. I think the first point and the last point are the real reasons. There are enough (even more than enough) cyclists that satisfy the criteria to be able to host a very competitive school league in Gauteng, so why would the organiser want to dilute their state aim to include even more cyclists who would then add disproportionately to their admin load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmichael Posted May 10, 2018 Share How does homeschooling work? Where do you play rugby, cricket, athletics etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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