Bad bike services

[forgotten1]

I own a shop. Trust me...its difficult. There is a fine balance. Early on I adopted this practice, point out every scratch as the bike is checked in...send photo's of the bike stripped via whatsapp so that the customer can see you have really stripped the bike. Inform the customer as best you can during the service. If something needs replacing, call first...never assume. Always call as soon as the bike is ready.

These bikes cost an arm and a leg these days, and we need to look after your prized possession as best we can. Hence why I have camera's over the check in area, waiting area, washbay and workshop stands. Ultra high definition so if the bike is scratched...we can see it. Its a necessary evil.

However...nobody is perfect, and shops can make mistakes. I had an issue where a customer had his bike serviced by me, then came storming in and blamed me for almost killing him on the trails that morning. He had collected the bike just 2 days before and when he was riding he noticed the gears were bad but it was due to the fact I (the shop) had not tightened his rear skewer. I took his bike into the workshop and apologised and immediately started checking his gears. They were perfect. He then says, "but when I rode my KICKR last night the indexing was out"...at which point I calmly pointed out that I was infact not the last guy to fasten the rear skewer as he had removed and replaced the rear wheel to ride the KICKR. But on the trails, and to his mates, I am the bad guy. I never saw him again after that, and he never accepted that I had made a valid point.

I have had to develop a thick skin and have had to develop devious tactics. Invisible ink pens and black lights. As soon as the bike is 100% and I am happy it is ready to collect, I mark the settings/bolts with invisible ink. If the bike returns with the normal complaint, "the gears are out since you serviced it" Then out comes the black light amd we check the settings. 99 out of 100 times its been adjusted after collection.

STRAVA...its my biggest friend. Every customer is saved to STRAVA. So when they say "I have only ridden twice since you serviced it 4 weeks ago" Out comes STRAVA to prove it.

The saddest thing is that this is what it has come to. If I service your bike and you are unhappy, just come and tell me. I will gladly fix it at no charge, because not only have I worked on it, and I am therefore responsible, but I want you happy and to come back. Mutual respect.

I sometimes feel the perception is that the shops are just there to screw you over. No. We are not. With all due respect, us cyclists are a difficult bunch. Try dealing with a difficult person from the other side of the counter. Its not easy.

I am not saying all shops are good. Nor are all shops bad. But its about relationships. The work from home mechanic has such appeal, because you are getting that personalized service. I respect that. But it doesnt always mean they are better and the shop is worse. Chances are the work from home guy is getting his spares from the shop you choose not to go to.

I have seen it all.

Believe me, we are not evil. We love cycling as much as you do. We also know its expensive. Your treasured Scalpel gets the love and attention you would lavish it with...as does the 30 year old Pick n Pay special thats miraculously still going.

Without going any further and lamenting any more, I would say this...choose a shop, and stick with that shop. The mechanics learn your bike and if there is an issue, go back and tell them. We are all human. But if you come in and you are sh!!+y to me, I will be sh!!+y back. Sorry to say. I am no doormat. A calm discussion and a smile goes a lot further than walking in and screaming.

Let us all enjoy riding together, we have the greatest sporting hobby on earth!!

[Patchelicious]

Sometimes an apology is worth more than a repair.

[forgotten1]

BaGearA...bud, it saddens me more than you know. Owning a bike shop isnt as rosey and as exotic as you think.

Suppliers have no stock = Your fault

Customer does bad at a race = Your fault

Product breaks = Your fault

Online store sends incorrect part = Your fault (for not explaining there is more than one variant of a product)

It has become a mine-field.

Offer as good a service as you possibly can, be fair on your prices and go the extra mile wherever you can. Thats all we can do.

Recently someone asked me how I felt about another shop opening in the area, I suspect he was waiting for me to have a negative word. All I said was the truth, "Bud...the only people that are going to benefit is the customers of all the shops in the area, coz now we all have to up our game to keep you all happy"

He was shocked. But its true. Competition is a wonderful thing.

[RoddieJ]

I own a shop. Trust me...its difficult. There is a fine balance. Early on I adopted this practice, point out every scratch as the bike is checked in...send photo's of the bike stripped via whatsapp so that the customer can see you have really stripped the bike. Inform the customer as best you can during the service. If something needs replacing, call first...never assume. Always call as soon as the bike is ready.

These bikes cost an arm and a leg these days, and we need to look after your prized possession as best we can. Hence why I have camera's over the check in area, waiting area, washbay and workshop stands. Ultra high definition so if the bike is scratched...we can see it. Its a necessary evil.

However...nobody is perfect, and shops can make mistakes. I had an issue where a customer had his bike serviced by me, then came storming in and blamed me for almost killing him on the trails that morning. He had collected the bike just 2 days before and when he was riding he noticed the gears were bad but it was due to the fact I (the shop) had not tightened his rear skewer. I took his bike into the workshop and apologised and immediately started checking his gears. They were perfect. He then says, "but when I rode my KICKR last night the indexing was out"...at which point I calmly pointed out that I was infact not the last guy to fasten the rear skewer as he had removed and replaced the rear wheel to ride the KICKR. But on the trails, and to his mates, I am the bad guy. I never saw him again after that, and he never accepted that I had made a valid point.

I have had to develop a thick skin and have had to develop devious tactics. Invisible ink pens and black lights. As soon as the bike is 100% and I am happy it is ready to collect, I mark the settings/bolts with invisible ink. If the bike returns with the normal complaint, "the gears are out since you serviced it" Then out comes the black light amd we check the settings. 99 out of 100 times its been adjusted after collection.

STRAVA...its my biggest friend. Every customer is saved to STRAVA. So when they say "I have only ridden twice since you serviced it 4 weeks ago" Out comes STRAVA to prove it.

The saddest thing is that this is what it has come to. If I service your bike and you are unhappy, just come and tell me. I will gladly fix it at no charge, because not only have I worked on it, and I am therefore responsible, but I want you happy and to come back. Mutual respect.

I sometimes feel the perception is that the shops are just there to screw you over. No. We are not. With all due respect, us cyclists are a difficult bunch. Try dealing with a difficult person from the other side of the counter. Its not easy.

I am not saying all shops are good. Nor are all shops bad. But its about relationships. The work from home mechanic has such appeal, because you are getting that personalized service. I respect that. But it doesnt always mean they are better and the shop is worse. Chances are the work from home guy is getting his spares from the shop you choose not to go to.

I have seen it all.

Believe me, we are not evil. We love cycling as much as you do. We also know its expensive. Your treasured Scalpel gets the love and attention you would lavish it with...as does the 30 year old Pick n Pay special thats miraculously still going.

Without going any further and lamenting any more, I would say this...choose a shop, and stick with that shop. The mechanics learn your bike and if there is an issue, go back and tell them. We are all human. But if you come in and you are sh!!+y to me, I will be sh!!+y back. Sorry to say. I am no doormat. A calm discussion and a smile goes a lot further than walking in and screaming.

Let us all enjoy riding together, we have the greatest sporting hobby on earth!!

This has got to be the most sensible response on the issue herein :bravo:

It takes a lot to own a shop and have to listen to some of the stories both heard and unheard...

I wish this drives the point home to haters that shop owners are NOT all about the money - This is categorically a fact in the cycling industry especially!

Lastly, let’s remember that we have the right to choose... and if we choose poorly, we have the opportunity to choose elsewhere for change...

[forgotten1]

RoddieJ...you are 100% correct. The right to choose is the customers.

And believe me, there is no money in the cycling industry. The shops do not make what you think they do. I wish they did. Believe me I wish they did. I am now simply rolling with the punches and simply have to make it work. I have no other choice.

[Skylark]

This has got to be the most sensible response on the issue herein :bravo:

It takes a lot to own a shop and have to listen to some of the stories both heard and unheard...

I wish this drives the point home to haters that shop owners are NOT all about the money - This is categorically a fact in the cycling industry especially!

Lastly, let’s remember that we have the right to choose... and if we choose poorly, we have the opportunity to choose elsewhere for change...

RoddieJ...you are 100% correct. The right to choose is the customers.

And believe me, there is no money in the cycling industry. The shops do not make what you think they do. I wish they did. Believe me I wish they did. I am now simply rolling with the punches and simply have to make it work. I have no other choice.

Now that you guys are kindly answering a few questions here, why are bike shop prices in Sa generally so expensive, so expensive that you can often import a part all the way from Europe express to your door and still save R1000+ after shipping and duties vs local bike shop price.

 

Is it the local Sa importers/distributor that add a sizeable chunk to the price, or is it the bike shops or is it both?

[Patchelicious]

This has got to be the most sensible response on the issue herein :bravo:

It takes a lot to own a shop and have to listen to some of the stories both heard and unheard...

I wish this drives the point home to haters that shop owners are NOT all about the money - This is categorically a fact in the cycling industry especially!

Lastly, let’s remember that we have the right to choose... and if we choose poorly, we have the opportunity to choose elsewhere for change...

Haters??? You mean unhappy customers! Perhaps if shops had more happy customers things wouldn’t be so tough?

 

But seeing unhappy customers as “haters” is bad business.

[PhilipV]

Now that you guys are kindly answering a few questions here, why are bike shop prices in Sa generally so expensive, so expensive that you can often import a part all the way from Europe express to your door and still save R1000+ after shipping and duties vs local bike shop price.

 

Is it the local Sa importers/distributor that add a sizeable chunk to the price, or is it the bike shops or is it both?

Do you have examples of this? Because I've found that even on big stuff like suspension forks that the difference isn't 1000+ unless you buy something on special/promotion.

 

But I van give an answer as general as your question:

If you take something like buying Shimano at Chain Reaction cycles, they are big enough that they buy at the same volumes as our distributors like Cool Heat (for shimano.) Cool heat then adds their margin, sells it to the bike shop, who adds their margin and sells it to you. But CRC had geolocked their shimano and sram sales, so we can't buy it from SA through CRC anymore.

[Eldron]

Do you have examples of this? Because I've found that even on big stuff like suspension forks that the difference isn't 1000+ unless you buy something on special/promotion.

 

But I van give an answer as general as your question:

If you take something like buying Shimano at Chain Reaction cycles, they are big enough that they buy at the same volumes as our distributors like Cool Heat (for shimano.) Cool heat then adds their margin, sells it to the bike shop, who adds their margin and sells it to you. But CRC had geolocked their shimano and sram sales, so we can't buy it from SA through CRC anymore.

Word on the street is that professional buyers negotiate lots directly from Shimano Japan to CRC at volumes and prices that will make your eyes water.

 

Having worked jn the industry in SA for years my opinion is that neither Coolheat nor the LBS are making outrageous profits/margins (with some exceptions of course - I've seen pricing that makes me wonder if people can count!).

[forgotten1]

SKYLARK, I wish I had a answer that would be acceptable. But I dont. It is insanely soul destroying when my actual cost price from the guys like Shimano is more expensive than the online stores. I had a customer who begged me to match a price on a product, I resorted to taking him into my office and showing him my cost price. He was shocked. I think the perception is that the shop is killing it.

In an instance like Coolheat, keep in mind that they carry a very wide range of product from Shimano as they are the designated agents. They dont just keep the fancy Dura Ace and XTR stuff, they have to keep all the everyday workshop items, small parts, older spares etc. Try ordering a shifter ratchet for a 10 speed Ultegra left hand lever from an online store. Chances are very good that they dont have it. But 9 times out of 10 Coolheat will. Those very same import duties that you all try and bypass when buying online from CRC...Coolheat cant. They pay heavily.

In my personal opinion if our government dropped the duties on the bike parts, you would get way better and competitive pricing. These are the same laws that protect local manufacturers. As far as I know the only parts made locally are CSixx. (I might be wrong) Everything else is made in China but branded a South African product.

While I agree 1000% that the local suppliers like Coolheat are expensive in comparison, I also see their point of view. If you had a business where 60% or more of your warranty claims were on the product you were the agent for, but were not bought from your region, then you can see why they fight to geolock a product. Thats money thats literally been thrown away. How do they survive? It is massively unfair to expect them to cover a warranty on a product that was not provided by them, even though its the same product and they are the agents.

Believe me, in an ideal world I would love to be offering parts at ridiculous prices that would have the masses flocking to my door. But I cant. I respect the agencies that have them, I value their backup and training. And I carry on.

When I am asked about costs and agencies instore, I respond with this..."You are free to go and source an agency for yourself from overseas. Drop R200k on an agency for a brand and get the rights for SA, wait 3/6 months for your stock to arrive, pay the clearing agents and then go store to store to proudly offer them your product...only to hear that the store doesnt want to carry it because customers can buy it for half your price online"

Now you sit with a great product, but you are unable to sell it because its too expensive. And its frustrating because you did it because you wanted to make some extra money off the sport you love, and you wanted to change the industry and offer a great product at a good price. It is tough.

This is why shops and agencies are going out of business all the time. I am not trying to save face for Coolheat or paint all the Bikeshops as hard done by...but simply giving my 2c worth having been the demanding customer and now the sleepless shop owner!

Trust me...its not easy!

[Brakepad]

One can not compare huge online shops with LBS

Just look at cost structures and services offered

Online : Warehouse somehere cheap + website

LBS: good location ,must present products nicely,  compare to the number of customers has a huge variety of products,
gives anybody advice ,chats to you for half an hour even if you don't buy anything,
sells you one single spoke if needed, .....

i could carry on for another hour but i rather go cycling now.
Even if the pricing of online shops are sometimes compelling i will always support the LBS
 

[ChrisF]

One can not compare huge online shops with LBS

 

Just look at cost structures and services offered

 

Online : Warehouse somehere cheap + website

 

LBS: good location ,must present products nicely,  compare to the number of customers has a huge variety of products,

gives anybody advice ,chats to you for half an hour even if you don't buy anything,

sells you one single spoke if needed, .....

 

i could carry on for another hour but i rather go cycling now.

Even if the pricing of online shops are sometimes compelling i will always support the LBS

 

 

up to a point ....

 

When a LBS charges R399 for the same item that another LBS sells for R260 .... let's just say it leaves a bitter taste.

 

But YES, it comes down to location ... and rental .... and the "feel" they create in the shop .... and clearly there are enough people out there that pay these inflated rates to keep some of these over priced places in business - comparing physical shops, not on-line sellers.

 

 

 

Thankfully we do travel a fair bit, so if I am not in a hurry for an item I get to shop around.  Frankly the physical bike shops in Hermanus and Worcester is significantly better than the local "big boys" .....  No wonder so many are turning to on-line stores

[ChrisF]

about 20 years ago I used to work at an lbs opposite Marks bike shop, and people used to come from far to have him work on their bikes.......and he still has a great reputation

 

1992 to 1996 we bought our bikes from Peter Alan.  Still remember my ATX780, drooling over it, as it stood in that centre island .....  Mark later joined the team, and took over when Peter retired.

 

 

 

That "other store" has moved a few times over the years .... 

 

 

Pity Willie Engelbrecht could not pull it off ....

[RoddieJ]

Haters??? You mean unhappy customers! Perhaps if shops had more happy customers things wouldn’t be so tough?

 

But seeing unhappy customers as “haters” is bad business.

@Patchelicious... your response is appreciated, but allow me to clarify... I believe an unhappy customer and “hater” to be different types. Haters will find any reason, reasonably or otherwise, to discredit shops or suppliers (read in this very thread and you will find examples). These are the folk who complain without justification.

 

I will never call an unhappy customer anything other than that - it happens for good reason, and that is why that same unhappy customer has the choice of going elsewhere to spend their hard-earned cash.

[Eugene]

One can not compare huge online shops with LBS

 

Just look at cost structures and services offered

 

Online : Warehouse somehere cheap + website

 

LBS: good location ,must present products nicely, compare to the number of customers has a huge variety of products,

gives anybody advice ,chats to you for half an hour even if you don't buy anything,

sells you one single spoke if needed, .....

 

i could carry on for another hour but i rather go cycling now.

Even if the pricing of online shops are sometimes compelling i will always support the LBS

 

That's the point. It's about choice.

 

You can choose to have the convenience and benefits of an lbs and pay extra for it or choose to save money, get no value add and buy online.

 

Being frugal, I would rather choose to save the money.

 

Forcing us to buy local (as with Sram/Shimano) is taking that choice away. Making us buy from one specific supplier slaps right in the face of competitiveness. It also gives carte Blanche for local industry to hike their prices to what they want because there is no longer competition.

[Rigardt@Scott]

Just to be clear, there are no import duties on bike parts. I played importer/distributor for a while and there is 0% on parts.

 

And the items that there is duty on; eg: complete bikes (15%), are not bypassed when you order online from overseas.

 

So the issue lies with places like CRC getting a lower/same cost price as distributors hence being able to sell at lower prices to consumers, and NOTHING to do with duties - although those duties on some items may be ridiculous, everyone is on a level playing field there.