CSA and Grassroots Development

[shaper]

Can you point out the ones doing nothing/very litte

Are they being paid?

How much are they being paid?

No I can not, the audited accounts do not highlight who is getting what, if anything ..... but as we have these continual discussion of the function or sometimes dysfunction of CSA, and the fact that the membership has reduced by over 2/3rds in the last year, highlights that there are failings within CSA and that can only be put down to performance by the trustees.... or do we look to blame it on something else.... leaving CSA to carry on as usual?

[Rolling Stone]

Interesting that nobody has said anything about the cost of bikes for the kids.

I have seen some very expensive equipment at some of the Spur races, and some really caped out well used ones as well, usually way down the field.

 

In Road and specifically track cycling we have limits on what gear can be used. 10-15 years ago youths were seen racing disc wheels and aero helmets. Interestingly, in many countries we now have gear  (and gears) restrictions to ensure that the sport remains affordable and that any good cyclist on reasonable equipment can compete.

 

 

SA_Youth+Equipment+Restrictions+-+Track.pdf

[Danger Dassie]

SASC is affiliated to CSA, and as a governing body SASC is well setup. Also not withstanding Meurant's involvement from the very beginning. 

How this relates to founded criticism of CSA being "haters" and "bashing" is a stretch though. Absolutely irrelevant. At best there may be some correlation, there is certainly no causation though.

[Andrew Steer]

No I can not, the audited accounts do not highlight who is getting what, if anything ..... but as we have these continual discussion of the function or sometimes dysfunction of CSA, and the fact that the membership has reduced by over 2/3rds in the last year, highlights that there are failings within CSA and that can only be put down to performance by the trustees.... or do we look to blame it on something else.... leaving CSA to carry on as usual?

I don't have the answers, and I don't know if there are obvious rotten apples still in the ranks for CSA... most of the problems in the structure are from my experience based on the failings of the previous regimes.

 

They have no events to make money, they have no assets, no tours, no academies etc to generate the funds such an organisation requires to run. Millions have been squandered on fancy events, lotto funding was lost, accounts looted etc - it didn't come to this overnight.

 

Maybe the staff needs thinning, maybe there are people doing nothing, maybe the structures are overthought - I don't have the answers, but throwing them all under the bus when my experience with a few of their staff is generally positive also doesn't sit too well. 

 

With the strength of cycling in this country, and the support of the key roll players once again, there is no reason they can't start to again deliver on their mandate and grow the sport.

 

At some point we need to support them again, at some point we need to help them back up again - because the sport in the long run will be better off for it.

[ChrisF]

Interesting that nobody has said anything about the cost of bikes for the kids.

I have seen some very expensive equipment at some of the Spur races, and some really caped out well used ones as well, usually way down the field.

 

In Road and specifically track cycling we have limits on what gear can be used. 10-15 years ago youths were seen racing disc wheels and aero helmets. Interestingly, in many countries we now have gear  (and gears) restrictions to ensure that the sport remains affordable and that any good cyclist on reasonable equipment can compete.

 

In 2017 we spent R 4500 on a 20'' Momsen for Maritz.  NICE bike !!  But made him no faster or better than his buddies on a third generation hand-me-down bike ..... 

 

13 months and 3 weeks later we bought a Titan Haydes 24'' ... JIP, this is how fast they grow out of these bikes ....  This bike cost R 3650.  The Momsen with air-shock costs about R 11 000 ...  Just no way I could justify that for the next 18 months ....

 

PS - there were three different Titans at the bike shop, 2018 and 2019 models, V-brake and disc brake options .... he could choose what he wanted .... JIP, chose based on the colour scheme ....    

 

 

And looking at the last two events ... his performance, or lack thereof, relates to SKILL !  He needs to learn about group starts !  Starting at the back is nice and safe, but you lose way too much ground !!  Right now we are working on his gear changes - back is fine, working on the front.  Last race he was spinning out on the small cogg in the front .... his buddy on a single speed bike dropped him badly ....

 

 

 

The reality is that many cant afford to buy new bikes every 2 years .... for four SPUR races a year .... so for many it is a fad that passes .... 

 

A local school WON the SPUR league a few times, now have less than halve the number of students as compared to their rivals ..... 

 

 

Fortunately Maritz and I cycle most weekends, so for us the SPUR event is just a special ride.  Thus I am happy to spend the money for his bikes 

[shaper]

I don't have the answers, and I don't know if there are obvious rotten apples still in the ranks for CSA... most of the problems in the structure are from my experience based on the failings of the previous regimes.

 

They have no events to make money, they have no assets, no tours, no academies etc to generate the funds such an organisation requires to run. Millions have been squandered on fancy events, lotto funding was lost, accounts looted etc - it didn't come to this overnight.

 

Maybe the staff needs thinning, maybe there are people doing nothing, maybe the structures are overthought - I don't have the answers, but throwing them all under the bus when my experience with a few of their staff is generally positive also doesn't sit too well. 

 

With the strength of cycling in this country, and the support of the key roll players once again, there is no reason they can't start to again deliver on their mandate and grow the sport.

 

At some point we need to support them again, at some point we need to help them back up again - because the sport in the long run will be better off for it.

Totally agree!!

 

See my post #3 and #7 with regard to thinking the organisation is top heavy for the number of members and possible ways to improve road cycling with a club league within the current race structure as CSA no longer organise events, not many clubs do as most events are run by event companies, individuals, charities or businesses.  

 

Grass route MTB is well established, Rolling Stone seems eager to do the same for track cycling, there is nothing much for road cycling and is where clubs can bring through juniors and give a sense of competition and pride to help develop them.  It also does not detract from individuals racing or fun riding and may well encourage individuals to join a club.

 

I know when I lived and raced in the UK, most cycle clubs would have teams in races, racing Cat 2, Cat 3 and Cat 4 as well as individuals to improve their seeding to be able race with the club as part of a team.  Some, not all were interested in this and others just raced for the fun of it as the majority of our fun riders do.

 

To get support, CSA need to show that they are doing something....... even if it is to come on here on the bikehub, take a few bullets and start interacting with the majority who are keen cyclist and want to see CSA succeed and develop our cycling potential.

 

EDIT:  Here is a link to my old club which you can see prides itself on it's racing and bringing juniors through the ranks http://twickenhamcc.co.uk/2017/09/27/twickenham-cc-racing/

 

There is no reason why CSA as they sanction these events with the various companies ask the event company etc to add an extra line when entering the event "whether you are racing as Club team member" then correlate from a team of 6 the best 4, thereby introducing team dynamics into the race.  

 

I doubt it would take much effort or cost then to correlate team results for a race within the race and soon establish a provincial league... and even a list of league sanctioned races.  Based on our system leagues could be established for VA all the way down or at least to C in the alphabet soup.... giving those seeded lower the incentive to improve their seeding.... else just to race for the fun of it as they do now.  It doesn't stop individuals racing in the higher groups and might inspire them to join a club.

[Dicky DQ]

I don't have the answers, and I don't know if there are obvious rotten apples still in the ranks for CSA... most of the problems in the structure are from my experience based on the failings of the previous regimes.

 

They have no events to make money, they have no assets, no tours, no academies etc to generate the funds such an organisation requires to run. Millions have been squandered on fancy events, lotto funding was lost, accounts looted etc - it didn't come to this overnight.

 

Maybe the staff needs thinning, maybe there are people doing nothing, maybe the structures are overthought - I don't have the answers, but throwing them all under the bus when my experience with a few of their staff is generally positive also doesn't sit too well. 

 

With the strength of cycling in this country, and the support of the key roll players once again, there is no reason they can't start to again deliver on their mandate and grow the sport.

 

At some point we need to support them again, at some point we need to help them back up again - because the sport in the long run will be better off for it.

But why CSA, why not another body? PPA maybe to replace CSA? Or another. They seem to be doing more for cycling than CSA and then all the fighting could also stop. 

 

No wait... egos are also at play ho hum.

[Rolling Stone]

But why CSA, why not another body? PPA maybe to replace CSA? Or another. They seem to be doing more for cycling than CSA and then all the fighting could also stop. 

 

No wait... egos are also at play ho hum.

This here is the perfect oportunity to let us know what PPA are doing for Grassroots development.

Us up here in Gauteng and the rest of the country have very little insight into what PPA is doing down there in Slaapstad.

[Gen]

This here is the perfect oportunity to let us know what PPA are doing for Grassroots development.

Us up here in Gauteng and the rest of the country have very little insight into what PPA is doing down there in Slaapstad.

Somewhere here on the hub there was a discussion about that.. you will be pleasantly surprised at the development they are doing and support they are giving riders..

 

But the folks from CT will have more updated info on that.

[rpedro]

We try to do what we can...

https://www.kineticcc.org.za/

https://www.facebook.com/sec.kinetic

[nathrix]

This here is the perfect oportunity to let us know what PPA are doing for Grassroots development.

Us up here in Gauteng and the rest of the country have very little insight into what PPA is doing down there in Slaapstad.

They’ve done a lot more for safety compared to CSA, please tell us what CSA is doing regarding safety for cyclists in general. Where do you think the 1 m rule came from, it didn’t just fall out of the sky. What can we expect from CSA in the future regarding safety of all cyclists and their rights to use our public roads?

[DJR]

What the PPA does is very relevant, but not here.

 

I want to know what CSA does and why I should support them, when for all I can see they have been pretty dysfunctional or ineffective for the last decade or so. Despite new brooms who promised to clean up a few years ago, it still seems as if they didn't get their rocket to take off, but just to fizzle on the launch pad. Even coming up with a great vision, that makes sense, a good business plan, finances sorted etc., will earn back my support. More talk alone is unlikely to. 

[Frosty]

As a spinoff from the CSA Communications thread I have started this Grassroots Development thread

What is Grassroots development exactly?

What is your region or club doing with regards to development?

What works and what does not work?

Share your success stories?

How can we club together, share info and resources and get more bang for our money?

What Roll should Schools cycling play in cycling development?

How is your region engaging with its members?

 

Reason I’m asking is that we have club members living in CGC region and they don’t hear anything from the region.

[Rolling Stone]

How is your region engaging with its members?

 

Reason I’m asking is that we have club members living in CGC region and they don’t hear anything from the region.

OK so here is where the CSA (and CGC) communications thing has taken a wobble.

 

• Traditionally CGC would communicate with clubs and clubs in turn will communicate with their members.
• the problem here is that all CGC members are no longer club members so they get zero commubication from their clubs .CGC do not have the email of all their members and CSA are not willing to share these around due to all kinds of alws etc. CSA have however offered to communicate with CGC(Gauteng) members on their behalf. This is a very new arrangement and some of you may be getting some emails from CSA you were not getting in the past.
• Keep in mind that CGC was a sunken ship and although it is afloat again, it is far from in racing condition.
• Our only other option is to, get facebook up and running again (It is) get our web site up and running (It is there with zero content) , build a new contacts list within the boundries of whatever the communications law allows.
• We now have a regular track mailing list  and if you want to be added to that you can simply follow this link http://eepurl.com/dFx4ZD
• If clubs want to be added to the CGC club mailing list you can just email us at admin@cgcycling.co.za

Emails are however not working so well for CSA, although they are sending out regular emails to all members, there are a number that are not getting them and CSA are getting no failure notices as far as I can ascertain. I am one of those that do not get mails and they are battling to sort it out. my guess is that up to 25% of members may not be getting CSA communications.

 

Can I ask that we rather continue this discussion on the CSA Communications thread and focus on  Grassroots development here.

[Rolling Stone]

What the PPA does is very relevant, but not here.

 

I want to know what CSA does and why I should support them, when for all I can see they have been pretty dysfunctional or ineffective for the last decade or so. Despite new brooms who promised to clean up a few years ago, it still seems as if they didn't get their rocket to take off, but just to fizzle on the launch pad. Even coming up with a great vision, that makes sense, a good business plan, finances sorted etc., will earn back my support. More talk alone is unlikely to. 

Hi DJR

My apologies if that came through as a challenge. I am really interested to know what PPA, other CSA regions, clubs etc are doing for grassroots development. CSA regions do not even share ideas and communicate formally.

[gtr1]

The trouble we have is that our club system is dysfunctional. Clubs exist so that a bunch of mates can ride together and get licences. They add nothing back to cycling.

 

Clubs used to take some responsibility for development, organise club rides and races and even organise and run bigger events.

 

This needs to change. Clubs should be represented at regional level and regions at CSA.