Hunting - yes or no?

[Chris NewbyFraser]

Having been around multiple hunters over my work life, I found few of these people who hunted as a means to cull or specifically put food on the table. Almost all of them evidenced pleasure in the act of killing another animal. Some of these to an extraordinary level. This suggests to me, that the primitive savage that the human was only a millenium or so ago, has not evolved greatly with the advances in civilisation. Under the skin, our base instincts are only mildly suppressed and when the opportunity is created, for instance by game farm owners who deliberately over-breed animals in restricted areas in order to attract other predators to come in and kill them - for a substantial fee - then that base savagery lights up and the humans come flocking in to for a killing orgy. A similar behaviour arises in rioting when protests develope a momemntum that overwhelmes our modern behavioural training and we return to our primitive inner.

To come back to hunting, predating on other species is part of life on earth, but the continued pleasure in killing that human hunters indulge in - that is distateful and will hopefully decline over the next number of centuries.

[Patchelicious]

Not really, there are plenty of unbiased news articles showing the scale at which veganism is growing and it is not a fad. And the vegan food options and alternatives these days are so good it really only comes down to people not being prepared to try it. I can say with hand on my heart that my vegan meals are as good, if not better, than my previous meat diet.

 

My wife made a vegan sticky toffee pudding this weekend - you would not know the difference.

 

I think you are disagreeing with me without understanding my core point.

 

Growing does not equal mass take up.

 

I know its growing, and I am happy for that. I also know some alternatives are very good, I went plant based for a few weeks earlier this year, some stuff was yummy some was ***.

 

Look, if you are wanting to save the world, then we need to acknowledge that not everybody shares your views and we need to offer them alternatives. Look at the thread you are on, there are people here who will never stop eating meat, but they might implement other carbon reducing solutions.

[Patchelicious]

I am starting to get the distinct impression that this is not much about saving the earth as it is arguing people into submission that ones personal life choice is the only one.

[forkie]

I am starting to get the distinct impression that this is not much about saving the earth as it is arguing people into submission that ones personal life choice is the only one.

truest thing said on this fred thus far

[Odinson]

This is my last post on this tangent (we really need to start an environmental thread and a veganism thread). 

 

It's not a case of virtue signalling or claiming moral superiority for one's own lifestyle. It's about being aware of what the current challenges we collectively face and looking to research to understand what can be done about it on an individual and collective level. 

 

I've invited anyone to present some compelling evidence/research on practical solutions that people can implement on a personal level, but that has not been forthcoming. 

 

Perhaps everyone should reflect on DJR's original side-tracking post for a few days and not just reply for the the sake of replying. 

[Patchelicious]

This is my last post on this tangent (we really need to start an environmental thread and a veganism thread). 

 

It's not a case of virtue signalling or claiming moral superiority for one's own lifestyle. It's about being aware of what the current challenges we collectively face and looking to research to understand what can be done about it on an individual and collective level. 

 

I've invited anyone to present some compelling evidence/research on practical solutions that people can implement on a personal level, but that has not been forthcoming. 

 

Perhaps everyone should reflect on DJR's original side-tracking post for a few days and not just reply for the the sake of replying. 

 

There are loads, and people have spoken about them, but these seem to get shot down and replaced with "veganism is the only way" People probably just gave up trying to discuss it.

 

https://cotap.org/reduce-carbon-footprint/

 

http://www.globalstewards.org/reduce-carbon-footprint.htm

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/19/how-to-reduce-carbon-footprint

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/7-instant-ways-to-reduce-your-carbon-footprint_us_59321992e4b00573ab57a383

 

https://mashable.com/2013/10/22/reduce-carbon-footprint/#78tgKv0PEiqT

Edited October 25, 2018 by Patchelicious

[forkie]

Patch is 100% correct when he says you will never turn everybody into a vegan. i can tell you now there is no evidence you can give me that will stop me braaing my lamb chops. So he came up with other less idealistic small wins which were shot down by the all or nothing sentiments of some posters.

 

This why politicians can get nothing done because they are too busy protecting their own agendas to actually make any difference. 

 

This may be the first time i have everf agreed with Patch. Holy Cow! or should that be Holy cabbage?

[leeubok]

Sjo, I come back to this thread after only a day and now I read that not only is hunting evil, but I should stop eating meat now as well! 

 

I braai'd with a vegan once. I accidentally let her little vegan worsie touch a piece of meat on the grid. Ek moes net knyp of sy druk daai braai tang dwars in my hol in op so kwaad was sy! 

 

Back to the topic (there are 2 now). We all want to save the planet. I am doing so in the way I believe is best. I've dedicated my life to nature conservation so I think I'm doing my part. Doesn't matter how you guys do it, be it becoming a vegan, cycling to work, or whatever. As long as everyone makes a conscious decision to do something! 

[Zatopek]

I can't agree with this logic, Patch. It's a cop-out. 

 

Your one kid could end up having five kids, who would have a greater environmental impact than someone's two kids, who each only has one kid. Who far down this rabbit hole do you want to go? 

 

Population control also isn't purely a numbers game, if you're looking at it from an ecological/sustainability point of view. Your one child will probably have a greater ecological footprint than 5 kids born and raised in a Mozambican fishing village or some other isolated corner of the world. 

 

Correct, the one kid can have 5 kids in the next generation, but your kid's kids can convert to none-vegan as well. ( They would be in my thoughts )

 

The 5 Mozambican kids vs 1 (Jhb/London?) kid argument need to be looked at over a number of generations (With the same population growth curves).

 

I don't disagree that vegan diet would have a massive effect, but it should not be used to the neglect of other options.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Zatopek

[Odinson]

Sjo, I come back to this thread after only a day and now I read that not only is hunting evil, but I should stop eating meat now as well! 

 

I braai'd with a vegan once. I accidentally let her little vegan worsie touch a piece of meat on the grid. Ek moes net knyp of sy druk daai braai tang dwars in my hol in op so kwaad was sy! 

 

Back to the topic (there are 2 now). We all want to save the planet. I am doing so in the way I believe is best. I've dedicated my life to nature conservation so I think I'm doing my part. Doesn't matter how you guys do it, be it becoming a vegan, cycling to work, or whatever. As long as everyone makes a conscious decision to do something! 

 

I think let's keep this one on the hunting and conservation topic. Otherwise it's going to be even messier than it is now. 

 

I'll start an 'environmental' thread a bit later today, if time allows. 

 

That bold bit, though   

[J∆kk∆ls]

When I was hunting back in the day. My roommate and I would travel to his farm once a year to get our own meat. When I about how much water we must have saved as well as fuel emissions and other wastes like plastic by not buying meat in the store I can't help but think that hunting have a positive effect on the environment.  The animals that we hunted were free roaming, meaning that there were no fences to keep them in. The fences were about 3-4 feet in height big enough to contain sheep but no match for Kudu or Springbuck.

 

In the offseason, we would drive through to pick up lamb chops from his farm. So we hardly ever bought meat for a period of about 4 years. 

 

Nowadays my wife and I eat very little meat and have an 80% veggie diet.  When we move to Canada I will take up fishing and maybe hunting once I am legally eligible to buy a rifle. 

[Mousea]

Sjo, I come back to this thread after only a day and now I read that not only is hunting evil, but I should stop eating meat now as well! 

 

I braai'd with a vegan once. I accidentally let her little vegan worsie touch a piece of meat on the grid. Ek moes net knyp of sy druk daai braai tang dwars in my hol in op so kwaad was sy! 

 

Back to the topic (there are 2 now). We all want to save the planet. I am doing so in the way I believe is best. I've dedicated my life to nature conservation so I think I'm doing my part. Doesn't matter how you guys do it, be it becoming a vegan, cycling to work, or whatever. As long as everyone makes a conscious decision to do something! 

well said.

Did you read the book ?

[Fruity]

 

So cynical, Eldron. Get some sun today while you can. The rest of the week looks a bit miserable in København. 

 

I get where you're coming from though. Most of the Western world is born into a consumerist society, which does not have the future of this planet as its primary concern. However, that doesn't absolve us from the responsibility to mitigate each of our footprint. 

 

If we want to mitigate/reverse some of the damage we've done, I think a few things need to happen: 

 

• Move to a plant-centered diet
• Population control
• Sustainable energy sources
• Rethink of the current dominant religion - liberalism

 

You would enjoy this chick:

 

 

I came across her YouTube channel yesterday.

No matter how hot she is, I'm still not going Vegan.

[Fruity]

When I was hunting back in the day. My roommate and I would travel to his farm once a year to get our own meat. When I about how much water we must have saved as well as fuel emissions and other wastes like plastic by not buying meat in the store I can't help but think that hunting have a positive effect on the environment.  The animals that we hunted were free roaming, meaning that there were no fences to keep them in. The fences were about 3-4 feet in height big enough to contain sheep but no match for Kudu or Springbuck.

 

In the offseason, we would drive through to pick up lamb chops from his farm. So we hardly ever bought meat for a period of about 4 years. 

 

Nowadays my wife and I eat very little meat and have an 80% veggie diet.  When we move to Canada I will take up fishing and maybe hunting once I am legally eligible to buy a rifle. 

Between the Mrs and I, we could live on fish, and chicken, but we do like variety in our diet when it comes to meat. Brisket on occasion with a fried egg and a salad, or like last night - lamb chops with a fried egg and some veg.

[leeubok]

well said.

Did you read the book ?

I did, thanks again for that! Really enjoyed it! I must make more of an effort to get similar books.

[forkie]

Between the Mrs and I, we could live on fish, and chicken, but we do like variety in our diet when it comes to meat. Brisket on occasion with a fried egg and a salad, or like last night - lamb chops with a fried egg and some veg.

if everybody chose fish our oceans would be dead in no time. Commercial fishing takes from the wild and does not replace.

Edited October 25, 2018 by forkie