CSA fining members for riding choc mtb

[DieselnDust]

Yes - it is just a slap on the wrist to the cyclist, but a wave of a big stick at all event organizers.

 

 

wheres the big stick? Event organisers can decide to apply for sanctioning or not. Its up to them.

The event organiser should make it clear whether or not the event is sanctioned and the market decides if they can/want to enter or not.

[Patchelicious]

wheres the big stick? Event organisers can decide to apply for sanctioning or not. Its up to them.

The event organiser should make it clear whether or not the event is sanctioned and the market decides if they can/want to enter or not.

 

The stick is their constant threats about sanctioning people who race in unsanctioned events.

 

Perhaps, just perhaps if they gave the service they should or even pitched up as we have heard a few posts back, when race organisers pay for the sanctioning there wouldn't be this issue?

[Rolling Stone]

With regards to a race like the CHOC, I tried to get as much background as I could.

 

The whole CSA, Officials, registering, sanctioning etc is rather complex and gets just more complex as CSA tries to provide for and acomodate every race.

I have only been at a region for 9 months and I definately do not understand the processes and cost implications fully.

 

I can assure you that our admin lady that has only been in the job for 3 months understands even less and will battle to explain the inner workings of the whole process to a new race organiser. 

 

That is partly why more and more of the processes are being centralised at CSA. 

 

To get back to a race like the CHOC. 

 

At CSA level it is very difficult to make an exception for every request, you know where that will lead. CSA is of late trying to apply the rules consistently, I am told.

As I understand it these are all different processes  that you choose to partake in or not

.

Listing as an Event Organiser: The event organiser registers on the web, No Charge.

 

Listing on Calendar: The process to be listed on CSA  calendar is very simple, and the is done by the event organiser online. There are fees associated to this, but these can be negotiated in good faith with the provincial body in which the event is hosted.

 

Sanctioning: This event  would pay R250 and receive public liability insurance – free of charge to the value of R20million and an official sanctioning certificate. In addition to this, the event is listed on our national calendar and promoted via emails to our data base on upcoming evens. An event has the option to sanction or not. If not, only full licensed riders cannot participate – normal Cycling SA members can participate, but they will not be able to claim on the medical insurance, in case of injury, as the event is not sanctioned.

 

Commissaires: I do not think that the CHOC event has ever pitched itself as a race with prize money so why would they need commissaires at an additional cost of R750 + Travel costs per commissaire – on request a technical delegate can be sent to inspect the course if guidance is required? I am not sure what really transpired with regards to officials, but my gut feeling is that there was definitely some miscommunication in this regard.

 

 

JOC: Provincial JOC’s, are starting to insist on the correct documentation and letter of support from the federation involved. This is not a CSA thing, it is a SAPS requirement. I doubt that the handing out of shooters was mentioned anywhere in this aplication . Lets rather keep that to ourselves.

 

Other events associated to CHOC have seen the real benefit and cost saving by being registered on the Cycling SA calendar.

 

Yes there’s the day license and levies, but in hindsight then again we could take that into consideration and ‘donate’ some of those fees directly to CHOC or to a cycling related initiative in our region that serves children or something like that. Just imagine if every race organiser wants to tellus exactly how to spend our income. But it is something we will consider, especially with races like 947 for instance, they certainly want to know where their money is going.

 

This just highlights the need to establish communication with event organisers, acknowledge the past but move forward in the best interests of the sport.

 

 

[scotty]

R750 and a months suspension is hardly heavy handed.

 

or must the rather hug and coach riders on the error of their ways.

 

If rider takes out a license then they are expected to understand the rules which includes the rules around what they put into their bodies, technical rules and code of conduct.

Simple, expect a slap on the wrist if you hold a license and ride in unsanctioned events.

And if they sanction a race for which the orgs pay for they expected to pitch up the race, which as mentioned in previous Choc races they did not. They understand the rules, do they then discipline themselves and the Orgs fully paid back. 

[DieselnDust]

And if they sanction a race for which the orgs pay for they expected to pitch up the race, which as mentioned in previous Choc races they did not. They understand the rules, do they then discipline themselves and the Orgs fully paid back. 

 

 

Expectation of CSA pitching up the race is not a guarantee. Paying for commissaires that don't pitchup is a different matter. Care to elaborate what you are referring to or are you grasping straws to keep the argument going till Friday?

[Andrew Steer]

And if they sanction a race for which the orgs pay for they expected to pitch up the race, which as mentioned in previous Choc races they did not. They understand the rules, do they then discipline themselves and the Orgs fully paid back. 

Read the post directly above yours... might help with some clarity

[Rolling Stone]

How can we collectively hurt CSA.  Damn, if 50 odd agitated employees can bring a mining operation of a multi-national mining giant to a standstill that employs 4500 people (yes, this is happening where I work right now), surely there has to be a way that 35000 cyclists can make a handful of execs at CSA feel some pain on the basis of our unhappiness.

 

I've probably paid CSA in excess of R5k over the past decade in the form of day license fees and assuming that BelieveRider's account of the situation is factual, I'm regretting every cent that I've paid them to date.

 

would appreciate if someone in a position of authority in these spheres can give us insight as to how to hurt this useless organization financially.  If you take the ~50k people that ride the 94.7 and CTCT every year (@R35 / day license = R1.75 Million), can't we get those big event organizers on board to force these guys into action and to retract the fines for the CHOC race? (and every other race where CSA is not providing their mandated "sactioning" services)

Total income from 947 in 2017 was in the region of R250k. That was split between CSA and region and only released in 2018 once the admin was in order. In 2016 the region got nothing because CGC admin was in a shambles with a self apointed GM taking a salary and doing very little imo. Works well to get a regime change, money dries up and the bad boys jump ship.The R1.75 mil would have been cool, but race organisers have been holding CSA accountable. Also had something to do with the costs of hosting UCI womans event. Riders may even be charged day licenses at 947 some time soon, that is if CSA and the region can convince the race organiser that their admin is in place and the money is spent wisely.

So yes the pressure sure is working.

[Escapee..]

And that is the pity of it all. I do not want to race, I do not want CSA, I do not give a flying f...k about the UCI. All I want is fun rides - and I am not alone. 

 

What CSA is doing is damaging to the large majority of us that just want to go out and have fun on our bicycles. 

 

Please correct me if I am wrong, as I understand it you only get fined if you have a racing license. Not a day license or a normal CSA yearly license?

 

So in your case, just dont get a racing license, problem solved..

[eddy]

Please send a link, I do not recall seing any volunteers to get involved al Local or regional level. I am sure we can put them in touch with their region. Everyone has a master plan but surely they need to proove their worth at local level first. If they have a track record at local level, I am sure CSA will gladly consider any offers.

 

 

I can see both sides of the argument and have no desire to get involved. I "race" twice a year and CSA is off no major concern to me.

 

However, this highlighted bit is complete rubbish and explains why the situation is unlikely to be fixed.

 

The caliber of person you need to turn this ship around is NOT the oom or tannie who will serve their time and "build a track record at local level". That is how many sporting bodies got themselves into trouble; keep pitching up and you will eventually get yourself onto the gravy train.

 

CSA need a proven business leader at the top who has the ability, charisma and vision to pull together a strong team, use his relationships to raise funds and get the organisation to function effectively.

 

People WILL follow a leader. No-one will follow a pen pusher, no matter how long he has officiated at races.

 

I have seen it happen elsewhere and If CSA make it their priority to change the top, they will surely find an ex-JSE CEO, passionate about cycling to volunteer for this role. 

 

He/she could use his boardroom connections to strong-arm a retired CFO to get the finance function up to scratch, a top ops guy to look at how to run it, drag some of his heavy hitting mates in to contribute to marketing, logistics, etc.  and maybe find some Corporate Social Responsibility funding to help it along. 

 

Who ever heads CSA today should go to the Sani/Epic/W2W/B&B, look at the masters entrants, find out who they are and approach someone to say:

 

" I don't have the skills. I will stand aside. Will you take my job on a voluntary basis for a period of 2 - 3 years and set us up for long-term success ?"

 

There are many successful voluntary associations being run by such people, no reason CSA can't be one as well. Except, it will take a supreme level of maturity for the current executive to admit to their shortcomings and actively find someone better.

[TIB]

I can see both sides of the argument and have no desire to get involved. I "race" twice a year and CSA is off no major concern to me.

 

However, this highlighted bit is complete rubbish and explains why the situation is unlikely to be fixed.

 

The caliber of person you need to turn this ship around is NOT the oom or tannie who will serve their time and "build a track record at local level". That is how many sporting bodies got themselves into trouble; keep pitching up and you will eventually get yourself onto the gravy train.

 

CSA need a proven business leader at the top who has the ability, charisma and vision to pull together a strong team, use his relationships to raise funds and get the organisation to function effectively.

 

People WILL follow a leader. No-one will follow a pen pusher, no matter how long he has officiated at races.

 

I have seen it happen elsewhere and If CSA make it their priority to change the top, they will surely find an ex-JSE CEO, passionate about cycling to volunteer for this role. 

 

He/she could use his boardroom connections to strong-arm a retired CFO to get the finance function up to scratch, a top ops guy to look at how to run it, drag some of his heavy hitting mates in to contribute to marketing, logistics, etc.  and maybe find some Corporate Social Responsibility funding to help it along. 

 

Who ever heads CSA today should go to the Sani/Epic/W2W/B&B, look at the masters entrants, find out who they are and approach someone to say:

 

" I don't have the skills. I will stand aside. Will you take my job on a voluntary basis for a period of 2 - 3 years and set us up for long-term success ?"

 

There are many successful voluntary associations being run by such people, no reason CSA can't be one as well. Except, it will take a supreme level of maturity for the current executive to admit to their shortcomings and actively find someone better.

 

Amen

[scotty]

Read the post directly above yours... might help with some clarity

Explains somewhat, but i clicked Post the same time it was posted so it was not there.

 

As a fun rider I still have not seen any benefit to attending a CSA sanctioned event over a non sanctioned one but Kudu's to Rolling Stone in trying to explain the mystery, more of people like him will help. 

[DJR]

..............

Eddy, be very careful saying stuff that make total sense, before you know it, someone will put your name into the hat......

[ians H2Sport]

Eddy, be very careful saying stuff that make total sense, before you know it, someone will put your name into the hat......

 

Eddy, be very careful saying stuff that make total sense, before you know it, someone will put your name into the hat......

I was just thinking that. C'mon Eddy, get up from in front of the TV

[eddy]

Eddy, be very careful saying stuff that make total sense, before you know it, someone will put your name into the hat......

 

I'm neither qualified nor retired yet.  

 

besides which, you don't need someone on the totem pole, you need someone who has been at the top. 

[gogo@]

The stick is their constant threats about sanctioning people who race in unsanctioned events.

 

Between 2013 and 2015 CSA was threatening to stop events that weren’t sanctioned. They threatened our event committee. Apparently the police would arrive and stop the event if we were not sanctioned. I was informed they had done this elsewhere. After that? Who knows. We made sure we were sanctioned so the issue no longer arose.

Nice, hey?

[Face Plant]

Between 2013 and 2015 CSA was threatening to stop events that weren’t sanctioned. They threatened our event committee. Apparently the police would arrive and stop the event if we were not sanctioned. I was informed they had done this elsewhere. After that? Who knows. We made sure we were sanctioned so the issue no longer arose.

Nice, hey?

There is no law stating that your event has to be sanctioned by a sports governing body, as long as your event complies with the regulations set out in the sports and recreation act there is no way that they can stop your event. But you are correct that CSA has threatened to do it in the past. I am not aware of any races that have actually been stopped.