The Veganism Thread

[WrightJnr]

How many grams of meat would one need to eat a day to get the recommended dosage of B12?

 

I got as far as reading it’s 2.4 micrograms. Then got bored/lost trying to figure out what that translates too in a piece of steak as some gets lost in the absorption process.

[Josh_the. Man]

Popping pills to stay alive. Great.

That's basically the only supplement we take. Stats have proven that vegans life way longer than meat eaters do. My iron levels are very high because I eat spinach every night. I also eat half a head of broccoli every night, broccoli is higher in protein than meat per calorie.

[Josh_the. Man]

How many grams of meat would one need to eat a day to get the recommended dosage of B12?

 

I got as far as reading it’s 2.4 micrograms. Then got bored/lost trying to figure out what that translates too in a piece of steak as some gets lost in the absorption process.

2.4micrograms isn't really enough. They say that even meat eaters don't get enough B12 in... I'm not sure how much meat that is, I would probably say 300g of beef. BTW they feed cows B12 because even they don't get enough of it.

[WrightJnr]

That's basically the only supplement we take. Stats have proven that vegans life way longer than meat eaters do. My iron levels are very high because I eat spinach every night. I also eat half a head of broccoli every night, broccoli is higher in protein than meat per calorie.

You got a link to this study/article? Would like to understand this “live way longer” statement.

 

Be interesting to see how many people were studied, nationalities, and what age they moved to full plant based if not from birth.

 

Understand this might be multiple articles and not just one of course.

[Odinson]

You got a link to this study/article? Would like to understand this “live way longer” statement.

 

Be interesting to see how many people were studied, nationalities, and what age they moved to full plant based if not from birth.

 

Understand this might be multiple articles and not just one of course.

Here’s one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29659968/

 

There’s loads more, but I’m on my phone, so that’ll have to do for now.

[WrightJnr]

Here’s one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29659968/

 

There’s loads more, but I’m on my phone, so that’ll have to do for now.

Something less scientific or easier to read perhaps. No rush, later, tomorrow.

 

That article seemed to compare healthy plant vs. unhealthy plant. Maybe I got confused.

[SSCC]

Here’s one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29659968/

 

There’s loads more, but I’m on my phone, so that’ll have to do for now.

 

Not a vegan study. There are significant difference between vegetarian and vegan diets as you know. These studies are also pretty worthless. Unless you remove all of the confounding factors such as smoking, alcohol, lifestyle, exercise, income, stress levels from work and relationships, urban vs rural you end up with garbage statistics. 

 

And because there has never been a single large vegan society in human history (vegetarian yes) we can't make any sensible claims about it's long term viability. The best we can say at this point is that it seems to work in the short or medium term for some people. Additionally that is may work long term for some but it certainly does not work for everyone. 

 

I'm not bashing veganism. I went down that road over ten years ago. A worthwhile question to ask anyone promoting a vegan diet is - how long you have been on it and what is your age? When I mean on it I mean a continuous stretch of time with ZERO animal products. 

[DJR]

.............. Stats have proven that vegans life way longer than meat eaters do. .................

From what I recall, those on a very low calorie, near starvation, diet, have the greatest longevity. Do you think that may be the reason? Any studies on that?

[Odinson]

Not a vegan study. There are significant difference between vegetarian and vegan diets as you know. These studies are also pretty worthless. Unless you remove all of the confounding factors such as smoking, alcohol, lifestyle, exercise, income, stress levels from work and relationships, urban vs rural you end up with garbage statistics.

 

And because there has never been a single large vegan society in human history (vegetarian yes) we can't make any sensible claims about it's long term viability. The best we can say at this point is that it seems to work in the short or medium term for some people. Additionally that is may work long term for some but it certainly does not work for everyone.

 

I'm not bashing veganism. I went down that road over ten years ago. A worthwhile question to ask anyone promoting a vegan diet is - how long you have been on it and what is your age? When I mean on it I mean a continuous stretch of time with ZERO animal products.

There’s no such thing as a perfect nutritional study, especially long term. To label these studies as “worthless” does a disservice to researchers who produce quality research in good faith.

 

There isn’t a significant amount of data on vegan communities long term, but there is a lot of data on predominantly plant-based communities from around the globe, as well as mid and short term data on vegans and their disease risk, longevity, etc. Studies show that vegans on a whole food plant based diet have better health outcomes than both their vegetarian and omnivore counterparts.

 

I will always recommend people to follow a proper whole food based diet. A junk food vegan diet is not going to afford you great protection or allow for great health outcomes.

 

Personally, I’m going on 4 years vegan.

[IceCreamMan]

From what I recall, those on a very low calorie, near starvation, diet, have the greatest longevity. Do you think that may be the reason? Any studies on that?

Might slow down metabolism.

 

However, we are eating more meat than ever before an life expectancies are higher than ever before so meat = life. Simple with x y graphs.

[Odinson]

Ironically I’m now digging into a chikken burger at Lewis Hamilton’s Neat Burger. So good! ???? Will try and post pics later.

[IceCreamMan]

Ironically I’m now digging into a chikken burger at Lewis Hamilton’s Neat Burger. So good! ???? Will try and post pics later.

We prefer the before pics, not the after ones.

[SSCC]

Studies show that vegans on a whole food plant based diet have better health outcomes than both their vegetarian and omnivore counterparts.

 

 

Personally, I’m going on 4 years vegan.

 

Again unless you account for confounding factors the data is not worth anything. All of the communities that show increased longevity are not vegan. They eat predominately a plant based diet that includes some meat and or fish and usually some dairy products. 

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative but at 4 years you are very new to this. Many of the "founders" or early adopters or promoters of the vegan and raw food movement are no longer vegan. These are not casual adopters but people that built nutrition companies who's sole aim was to sell vegan products and live the vegan lifestyle. In other words it was their life, identity and how they made (make) their living. 

 

So it can take a long time (decade or more) to figure some of this stuff out. I personally think veganism is a worthwhile experiment but like any ideology it can be a trap. People become so identified with the ideology that they lose their ability to make decisions based on intuition. Their body may be telling them one thing but their desire to conform to the ideals that they have created overrides intuition and reason.

[Odinson]

Again unless you account for confounding factors the data is not worth anything. All of the communities that show increased longevity are not vegan. They eat predominately a plant based diet that includes some meat and or fish and usually some dairy products.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative but at 4 years you are very new to this. Many of the "founders" or early adopters or promoters of the vegan and raw food movement are no longer vegan. These are not casual adopters but people that built nutrition companies who's sole aim was to sell vegan products and live the vegan lifestyle. In other words it was their life, identity and how they made (make) their living.

 

So it can take a long time (decade or more) to figure some of this stuff out. I personally think veganism is a worthwhile experiment but like any ideology it can be a trap. People become so identified with the ideology that they lose their ability to make decisions based on intuition. Their body may be telling them one thing but their desire to conform to the ideals that they have created overrides intuition and reason.

Why did you give up?

[SSCC]

Why did you give up?

 

My own experience mirrors some of what I hear from other long term vegans.

 

Blood work. Things may only start to show up after quite a few years.

 

Time spend out of the city in the country actually growing my own food.

 

Veganism is largely an urban phenomenon. I believe it comes about from a disconnection from nature. Disconnection from the cycle of birth and death. We have zero real exposure to that living in a city. We have no connection with animals besides our pets. Then you watch one of those movies and read the China study. The abuse animals suffer in factory farms is intolerable. Perhaps humans great crime. Stopping eating meat is a logical step. But when you remove yourself from a big city environment you really get to understand our place in nature and things change.

 

Just to add - some country folks I know that hunt or manage their own animals for food are more vegan then any vegan I ever met i.e. they really love animals and respect them in a way that city people will never understand.

[DJR]

My own experience mirrors some of what I hear from other long term vegans.

 

Blood work. Things may only start to show up after quite a few years.

 

Time spend out of the city in the country actually growing my own food.

 

Veganism is largely an urban phenomenon. I believe it comes about from a disconnection from nature. Disconnection from the cycle of birth and death. We have zero real exposure to that living in a city. We have no connection with animals besides our pets. Then you watch one of those movies and read the China study. The abuse animals suffer in factory farms is intolerable. Perhaps humans great crime. Stopping eating meat is a logical step. But when you remove yourself from a big city environment you really get to understand our place in nature and things change.

 

Just to add - some country folks I know that hunt or manage their own animals for food are more vegan then any vegan I ever met i.e. they really love animals and respect them in a way that city people will never understand.

Very interesting point and well argued.