The Veganism Thread

[The Ghost]

Sweet potato and bean quesadillas tonight

[Grass Muncher]

I've been reading through this thread to gain ideas of making non meat dishes more fun. Although I have no inclination of going full vegan/vegetarian.

 

So please don't take this the wrong way or as a troll post, but is vegetarianism/veganism as it is at present not harmful to the environment as well?

Take for example eating fruit or veg that is not indigenous to SA or in season here, generally that needs to get imported, aren't the transportation environmental costs just as bad as karan beef and his cattle farms?

 

 

Our biggest imports are grains, wheat, rice, corn.

Yet again, most of our grains, especially corn goes towards the meat industry.

SA doesn't really import fruit and vegetables. It's South Africa, we literally grow almost everything.

 

Ovcourse, importing stuff will be harmful but the biggest imports in most countries are things both vegans/carnists consume like coffee, sugar, chocolate, avo, bananas, almonds, rice.

[IceCreamMan]

Today marks 100 days since embarking on the vegan diet. Whilst there have been a couple of times where i have eaten cheese (either by design or error) i consider myself pretty much a vegan in diet. ( i wear leather while riding my motorcycles) 

 

Its been far easier than i could have imagined, there are countless cook books to choose from and products available. Eating out has been easy too as there are generally vegan options available wherever  we go. Shops are full of vegan options like mayo etc, even nandos has a vegan peranaise sauce here. Some of the meat products are quite frankly crap but some are pretty good, albeit expensive. My lovely wife has kinda adopted the diet for the most part too which makes it so much easier. My lad not yet but maybe in time. Up to him. Life goes on , more so for some i guess. 

 

Its a journey , i aint militant in my approach. Live and let live eh. 

 

As to health aspects. I am able to increase my HR while running, i sleep better and will have some blood tests done in time to check a few things. Unfortunately i had the virus and then a running incident in the snow 2 weeks ago so half the 100 days been unable to train. Hopefully next week just in time for spring/summer. 

[Rocket-Boy]

Interesting

 

 

Most hunters I know are big animal lovers (not the idiots that chase the animals down with a bakkie and shoot them from the back on a rest)

Hunting(not the idiots that chase the animals down with a bakkie and shoot them from the back on a rest) is actually something I dont have a problem with if its in the interest of controlling herds etc.

 

Trophy hunters can call themselves animal lovers all they like, but no one kills the things they love just because they want the biggest pair of horns mounted on their wall.

[Rocket-Boy]

It's an interesting debate - the biggest socially acceptable driver in reducing the number of kids on the planet seems to be the education of girls. Do you think it is easier to make a difference to education or to change the way people eat (I honestly don't know, but I do struggle to believe in veganism changing the planet).

 

What you do in your household isn't going to make a difference either way.

Climate change requires many approaches if we are going to survive for the next few generations on earth. Education, producing less waste, being more energy efficient, having smaller families and eating a plant based diet are all high on that list.

 

Going plant based alone isnt the only answer, all of the factors need to be considered.

If we took even half of the land used for grazing of cattle and used it instead to grow sustainable crops that would make a massive difference.

 

If what we do in our households wont make a difference then humanity is stuffed, there really isnt any other way to look at it. When more people start making that effort then things will start getting better.

Its pretty uncomfortable at first but after a while it becomes really easy.

[Grass Muncher]

Today marks 100 days since embarking on the vegan diet. Whilst there have been a couple of times where i have eaten cheese (either by design or error) i consider myself pretty much a vegan in diet. ( i wear leather while riding my motorcycles)

 

Its been far easier than i could have imagined, there are countless cook books to choose from and products available. Eating out has been easy too as there are generally vegan options available wherever we go. Shops are full of vegan options like mayo etc, even nandos has a vegan peranaise sauce here. Some of the meat products are quite frankly crap but some are pretty good, albeit expensive. My lovely wife has kinda adopted the diet for the most part too which makes it so much easier. My lad not yet but maybe in time. Up to him. Life goes on , more so for some i guess.

 

Its a journey , i aint militant in my approach. Live and let live eh.

 

As to health aspects. I am able to increase my HR while running, i sleep better and will have some blood tests done in time to check a few things. Unfortunately i had the virus and then a running incident in the snow 2 weeks ago so half the 100 days been unable to train. Hopefully next week just in time for spring/summer.

Thats great man, thanks for keeping us updated. The family will have to adapt as well, it just makes dinner easier.

 

It doesn't snow in SA by the way.

[Grass Muncher]

Hunting(not the idiots that chase the animals down with a bakkie and shoot them from the back on a rest) is actually something I dont have a problem with if its in the interest of controlling herds etc.

 

Trophy hunters can call themselves animal lovers all they like, but no one kills the things they love just because they want the biggest pair of horns mounted on their wall.

Frana said that most hunters he knows are big animal lovers.

I just can't agree that anyone who hunts or butchers animals truely 'loves' animals.

People who hunt animals see animals as a commodity rather than a living thing. I think a more accurate description is an animal enthusiast.

 

I have no problem with people controlling herds. They just can't call themselves animal lovers.

 

In the movie GameChangers there was a guy who guarded rhinos against poaching for a living. The guy did this for years and felt that he himslef was a hipocrite for guarding animals in the day and then going home at night just to eat another animal. He said that once he went vegan he truly felt a connection with the rhinos and animals around him.

[Patchelicious]

Frana said that most hunters he knows are big animal lovers.

I just can't agree that anyone who hunts or butchers animals truely 'loves' animals.

People who hunt animals see animals as a commodity rather than a living thing. I think a more accurate description is an animal enthusiast.

 

I have no problem with people controlling herds. They just can't call themselves animal lovers.

 

In the movie GameChangers there was a guy who guarded rhinos against poaching for a living. The guy did this for years and felt that he himslef was a hipocrite for guarding animals in the day and then going home at night just to eat another animal. He said that once he went vegan he truly felt a connection with the rhinos and animals around him.

 

That's very well put. 

[BaGearA]

I'm sure true animal lovers would just let nature take it's course , which will be specific species that destroy their habit and have the whole species starve and suffer to death within 50 years. Axis deer and elephants in central and southern africa spring to mind but I'm sure there are dozens.

 

 

 

animal lovers groups , zoo's , petting zoo's and virtually every other "conservation' scheme out there combined, doesn't come close to the money that is raised by hunting , which is largely used to expand and provide better facilities to these specific places. Damn animal haters those hunters 

[Chris_]

I'm sure true animal lovers would just let nature take it's course , which will be specific species that destroy their habit and have the whole species starve and suffer to death within 50 years. Axis deer and elephants in central and southern africa spring to mind but I'm sure there are dozens.

 

 

 

animal lovers groups , zoo's , petting zoo's and virtually every other "conservation' scheme out there combined, doesn't come close to the money that is raised by hunting , which is largely used to expand and provide better facilities to these specific places. Damn animal haters those hunters

I'm not sure this reply was as clever as you thought it was.

 

I'm kind of lost for your point, or angle, or argument.

 

Edit: apols if that came out condescending, wasn't meant to be

Edited February 8, 2021 by Chris_

[Jurgens Smit]

Frana said that most hunters he knows are big animal lovers.

I just can't agree that anyone who hunts or butchers animals truely 'loves' animals.

People who hunt animals see animals as a commodity rather than a living thing. I think a more accurate description is an animal enthusiast.

 

I have no problem with people controlling herds. They just can't call themselves animal lovers.

 

In the movie GameChangers there was a guy who guarded rhinos against poaching for a living. The guy did this for years and felt that he himslef was a hipocrite for guarding animals in the day and then going home at night just to eat another animal. He said that once he went vegan he truly felt a connection with the rhinos and animals around him.

Your post makes me very confused, because I both agree and disagree with you.

 

I appreciate nature for what it is. I can look at a buck in the wild and not think jis if only I had my rifle wif me. I believe you can love animals and still hunt, depending on how you approach it. I'm just having a hard time formulating it into words. I believe the view that hunters can't be animal lovers comes from what is observed which may not be accurate to the whole group. If you see a guy or gal, posing with their rifle next to a buck they just shot whether it be trophy or not, you're not going to think "wow they sure loved that animal to death". But if you see the behind the scenes a lot of game farms are actively building and achieving with funds secured from hunting you could say, "wow these people sure love animals, look at all they are doing".

I guess for some of the hunters calling themselves lovers, it's about the bigger picture. The active change conservation brings. Not that I'm saying you're narrow minded, I just know for me it's less about the animal specifically and more about loving nature and trying to preserve it.

 

The one thing I feel very strongly about, is it must be done ethically, and no trophy hunting. Unless the trophy formed part of a cull(for what ever reason that may be), all I see it as is fueling your ego and showing the world your "magnum sized dong"

Edited February 8, 2021 by Jurgens Smit

[Jurgens Smit]

But, back to the topic of plant based. I made my first fully(i think) plant based meal this evening.

I did use some butter when frying the gnocchi to get them crsipy, but olive oil can do fine.

Made some gnocchi(had left over baked potatoes) along with a quick stir fry of cabbage, carrots, onions and peppers. It's not going to win me any awards, but it was nice. Still need to tweak the pairings to see what goes well with what. Also to see what herbs and spices work well.

 

This weekend I'm doing some tofu for the first time, so will see how that goes.

[Grass Muncher]

But, back to the topic of plant based. I made my first fully(i think) plant based meal this evening.

I did use some butter when frying the gnocchi to get them crsipy, but olive oil can do fine.

 

Made some gnocchi(had left over baked potatoes) along with a quick stir fry of cabbage, carrots, onions and peppers. It's not going to win me any awards, but it was nice. Still need to tweak the pairings to see what goes well with what. Also to see what herbs and spices work well.

 

This weekend I'm doing some tofu for the first time, so will see how that goes.

This is what I use to make my tofu. Always soak your tofu in soy sauce before frying.

[Patchelicious]

Your post makes me very confused, because I both agree and disagree with you.

 

I appreciate nature for what it is. I can look at a buck in the wild and not think jis if only I had my rifle wif me. I believe you can love animals and still hunt, depending on how you approach it. I'm just having a hard time formulating it into words. I believe the view that hunters can't be animal lovers comes from what is observed which may not be accurate to the whole group. If you see a guy or gal, posing with their rifle next to a buck they just shot whether it be trophy or not, you're not going to think "wow they sure loved that animal to death". But if you see the behind the scenes a lot of game farms are actively building and achieving with funds secured from hunting you could say, "wow these people sure love animals, look at all they are doing".

I guess for some of the hunters calling themselves lovers, it's about the bigger picture. The active change conservation brings. Not that I'm saying you're narrow minded, I just know for me it's less about the animal specifically and more about loving nature and trying to preserve it.

 

The one thing I feel very strongly about, is it must be done ethically, and no trophy hunting. Unless the trophy formed part of a cull(for what ever reason that may be), all I see it as is fueling your ego and showing the world your "magnum sized dong"

 

How would you define this?

[Jurgens Smit]

How would you define this?

 

• No herding (workers chasing the buck into a area where the "hunters" wait)
• No bakkie shots
• No shooting when they are vulnerable. There are people that like to wait in hides at designated feeding/watering points.
• There's a difference between hiding while stalking and a hide. One makes the animal come to you while you wait, the other makes you go after the animal and work for it.
• Giving the animal a chance to sense you and get away. (this goes with the hides thing)
• Well placed shots, if you can't make the shot or doubt in it don't take it.
• Making sure your equipment is capable. EX there are arguments that certain calibers can do the job for larger game, but recommendations are there for a reason.
• To try and not stress out the herd at large (ie using a silencer)
• No crazy long shots - shooting ranges exist for a reason
• Only shooting what you are going to use.
• No alcohol before or during the hunt
• No traps/poisons etc (These are illegal anyway)
• Leaving your environment as you found it (picking up spent cases etc)
• Respecting your bounty. You just shot something so there should be no waste.

Luckily it has not happened to me, but if you don't kill on the first shot you do your best to find the animal and finish what you started. I believe this goes hand in hand with taking shots you are uncertain about.

 

Then also following the general guidelines and rules, buck over a certain age etc.

 

I like to put effort into the hunt, track,stalk and shoot not getting dropped off where the herd is. Doing your research etc.

It makes me feel like I've worked for it and makes me respect the hunt.

 

Obviously every persons morals and ethics vary.

This is something that is more easily shown than said though.

[Chris_]

 

• No herding (workers chasing the buck into a area where the "hunters" wait)
• No bakkie shots
• No shooting when they are vulnerable. There are people that like to wait in hides at designated feeding/watering points.
• There's a difference between hiding while stalking and a hide. One makes the animal come to you while you wait, the other makes you go after the animal and work for it.
• Giving the animal a chance to sense you and get away. (this goes with the hides thing)
• Well placed shots, if you can't make the shot or doubt in it don't take it.
• Making sure your equipment is capable. EX there are arguments that certain calibers can do the job for larger game, but recommendations are there for a reason.
• To try and not stress out the herd at large (ie using a silencer)
• No crazy long shots - shooting ranges exist for a reason
• Only shooting what you are going to use.
• No alcohol before or during the hunt
• No traps/poisons etc (These are illegal anyway)
• Leaving your environment as you found it (picking up spent cases etc)
• Respecting your bounty. You just shot something so there should be no waste.

Luckily it has not happened to me, but if you don't kill on the first shot you do your best to find the animal and finish what you started. I believe this goes hand in hand with taking shots you are uncertain about.

 

Then also following the general guidelines and rules, buck over a certain age etc.

 

I like to put effort into the hunt, track,stalk and shoot not getting dropped off where the herd is. Doing your research etc.

It makes me feel like I've worked for it and makes me respect the hunt.

 

Obviously every persons morals and ethics vary.

This is something that is more easily shown than said though.

 

 

I know there will never be agreement here, so maybe the less said the better... 

 

I think there is a difference between people nominating themselves as an animal lover (this is where it started) as in a living being, and a lover of an animal as a commodity.

 

I'm getting the overwhelming feeling you are describing being a lover of animals as commodities. As long as you feel you worked hard enough to either deserve killing it, manipulate it, benefit from it, monetise it, then taking a life is way down the totem pole.

 

Ethics have very different meanings between each person and in each circumstance its referred to in, but this post above makes it sound like 'fairness in a game' is your ethical priority in hunting, while others could argue animals and lives are not for games.