kosmonooit Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 I am trying hard to imagine what would cause that huge rate of descent. The Ground speed as shown would not indicate a straight nose down. I honestly think if the machine bunted over and pointed at the ground your 29000 ft per minute I would expect a good 600 kts or so.Even a stall and departure from normal fight at around 10 000 feet should be fully recoverable........unless the aeroplane was completely unflyable for whatever reason.It boggles my mind that it came down from 10000 feet in just 20 seconds. Massive decompression should have no cause for such loss of control from just 10000 feet unless controls were badly damaged. I had suspected an in flight break up in bad weather but again it has been reported as hitting the water intact.Tonight I am having dinner with an ex Emirates Training Captain. Will discuss and see what he comes up with. The boxes will reveal a lot.I am erring to the thought of flight control problems, sounds obvious I guess. Remember the Air Alaska MD83 crash in 2000. Stab trim Jack scew failed and the machine plunged into the Pacific. Even with that failure it never achieved even half of this 737’s Rate of Descent. Quite possibly it was also under (full?) power, nose down, for whatever reason, that caused that high rate of decent.
SwissVan Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 No they don't train PPL on spins anymore anywhere as far as I know. but I had the privilege of a good few back in the day. As terrifying as it was, I enjoyed the challenge (and the adrenaline). Thanks for the refresh of info on stalls, its been a while. If I remember correctly, to recover from a spin : Rudder to opposite side of rotation, once rotation stops start pulling back to get out the dive. Live to tell the tale. This is one of the things I used to use FS Sim for, for practicing procedures (one of the first versions that ran on DOS, still on my self here) I am sure they haven't coded it out of the latest versions, Simmers should give it a try. How to initiate a spin? Straight and level flight, cut power, keep pulling back on yoke gently to maintain altitude, the speed will bleed off and the stall will start with a shuddering of the wings, then give the rudder a kick to one side and see what happens. Some aircraft will be more spin resistant that others, so take the old training fav a Cessna 152 LOL... I started my PPL while being an Apprentice aircaft mech, and this is one of the things that changed my mind about being a Pilot...after doing a few spins in a Little ole C152 (ZS-KSL) i gave up all ideas of being a Pilot...
Quagga Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 Thanks for the reality check.SnipBut still I yearn to to do a PPL and fly out of Stellenbosch. SnipWhy not try Morningstar and investigate NPL or PPL PPL is 45 hours, that you can do when you like. NPL is 35 hours, and it took me 6 months to complete. I got mine at 37hours :-) And I can always upgrade to PPL but I dont see my being able to afford having a bigger plane on my license at R4000 ph Keeping the Sling and Savanha on my lic. at R1395 p x 5 hours per year is doable. They offer VERY good rates, at R1395 per hour, and you do not need to drop the whole amount. Go do an intro flight....and check it out. SwissVan, PhilipV, dirtypot and 2 others 5
dev null Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 Looking at the fast rate of decent, I highly suspect structural failure. My guess would be one of the wings. Engine failure alone would not cause such a fast rate of decent. Also, I see that the altitude started leveling out, so to me I would not think it would be a stall induced spin. What do you experts think? I am but a noob.
Bateleur1 Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 Looking at the fast rate of decent, I highly suspect structural failure. My guess would be one of the wings. Engine failure alone would not cause such a fast rate of decent. Also, I see that the altitude started leveling out, so to me I would not think it would be a stall induced spin. What do you experts think? I am but a noob. Anything is a guess at the moment. A complete break of the wing in my humble unqualified opinion would have sent the aircraft in a violent spin that would have left a slightly bigger debries field. All indications are that the aircraft hit the water in one piece thus such a small area of the debries field. I wonder if a engine did not break off rupturing hydraulic lines in the process. I feel bad for Boeing as I am pretty sure this is not a Boeing related error as such. I am more inclined to think this would be a maintenance issue gone wrong.
Spokey Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 No they don't train PPL on spins anymore anywhere as far as I know. but I had the privilege of a good few back in the day. As terrifying as it was, I enjoyed the challenge (and the adrenaline). Thanks for the refresh of info on stalls, its been a while. If I remember correctly, to recover from a spin : Rudder to opposite side of rotation, once rotation stops start pulling back to get out the dive. Live to tell the tale. This is one of the things I used to use FS Sim for, for practicing procedures (one of the first versions that ran on DOS, still on my self here) I am sure they haven't coded it out of the latest versions, Simmers should give it a try. How to initiate a spin? Straight and level flight, cut power, keep pulling back on yoke gently to maintain altitude, the speed will bleed off and the stall will start with a shuddering of the wings, then give the rudder a kick to one side and see what happens. Some aircraft will be more spin resistant that others, so take the old training fav a Cessna 152Pretty accurate, but dont forget the slight check forward on the column/ yoke to reduce the angle of attack and unstall the stalled wing/s. Then straight forward as you said, stop rotation and ease out of the ensuing dive.........gently so as not to induce a secondary stall.
Spokey Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 Why not try Morningstar and investigate NPL or PPL PPL is 45 hours, that you can do when you like. NPL is 35 hours, and it took me 6 months to complete. I got mine at 37hours :-) And I can always upgrade to PPL but I dont see my being able to afford having a bigger plane on my license at R4000 ph Keeping the Sling and Savanha on my lic. at R1395 p x 5 hours per year is doable. They offer VERY good rates, at R1395 per hour, and you do not need to drop the whole amount. Go do an intro flight....and check it out.This sounds like a fun way to potter about the sky for not a lot of dollars! I like the look of either of those little aeries.
Quagga Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 (edited) This sounds like a fun way to potter about the sky for not a lot of dollars! I like the look of either of those little aeries.I love the sling, it takes 2 people only and I can not afford any more per hours anyway. Savanha is a bit slow, but FUN to fly. They say fly it lika tail dragger with a nose wheel. You need happy feet. :-) Sling easily does 95-100 kts so one can get somewhere also. Edited January 11, 2021 by Quagga Spokey 1
SwissVan Posted January 12, 2021 Posted January 12, 2021 “A device that Indonesia is using to locate the black boxes of the crashed Sriwijaya Air plane is suffering from "technical problems or equipment damage", say officials.Authorities are waiting for a new "ping locator" to arrive from Singapore” https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55628294
SwissVan Posted January 12, 2021 Posted January 12, 2021 FDR has been found and recovered... seems to be intactCVR search tbc Bonus and Bateleur1 2
SwissVan Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 Its a bit messy down there, short video taken by the searching divers a few days ago Heres the FDR with 2 under water locator beacons (pingers) Standing on top of the containerThe FDR is the orange Thing inside the clear water container. The test / read out of the FDR will take a few days Bonus and Long Wheel Base 2
Bateleur1 Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 FDR has been found and recovered... seems to be intactCVR search tbc Swiss have you got any info on what depth the wreckage is?
Blu82 Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 Swiss have you got any info on what depth the wreckage is?My understanding it is around 16m to 18m so well inside recreational diver depths. Bateleur1 1
SwissVan Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 Swiss have you got any info on what depth the wreckage is?I heard about 75 feet, but this was in the beginning.Does not seem to be an issue for the divers Bateleur1 1
SwissVan Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 My understanding it is around 16m to 18m so well inside recreational diver depths. Never mind the Depth...today search was suspended due to stormy weather and 2.5m size waves On Jan 13th 2021 Basarnas reported recovery works have been suspended temporarily due to the weather conditions and 2.5m waves at the crash site
Long Wheel Base Posted January 14, 2021 Posted January 14, 2021 Its a bit messy down there, short video taken by the searching divers a few days ago Heres the FDR with 2 under water locator beacons (pingers) Standing on top of the containerThe FDR is the orange Thing inside the clear water container. The test / read out of the FDR will take a few days 1.pngAny idea why they keeping it in water? Bateleur1 1
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