For the aviation fans

[Bateleur1]

Tis really horrible, but if indeed the wing seperated then the resulting spin would give no one a chance to escape. Terrible if it did happen at 4000m, over 12000ft altitude. Would take a chunk of time to hit the ground..........nasty.

Recently a survey C210 had a wing separation in Oz with the loss of the crew members. This at low level.

Must be so aweful to be so helpless as the pilot.

 

Sure I understand the physics and why in most cases they would not have been able to escape.  It is just the irony for me.  Even fighter aircraft with ejection seats when they go into an uncontrollable spin would be problematic to escape at best.

 

I remember reading an article in the Times magazine of someone who survived the emergency landing of the Ethopian Boeing that landed in the water off the shores of the Comores.  The author described that glide down after they ran out of fuel till they hit the water as the longest most terifying time in her life.  She described the fear the people had.  People were littery soilling themselves. She said that smell in the cabin was unbearable just before they hit the water.

[kosmonooit]

Difference is fighter pilots train for that - unsuspecting sky divers would likely have not been prepared at all.

 

Quite often getting out such a situation is counter-intuitive, for example getting out of a spin, the pilot needs to go through a procedure. There was another accident recently with a sky diving aircraft where the the pilot didnt get this right

 

 

It goes something like throttle off, rudder opposite to spin, once spin has stopped, pull back on control column to get out of the dive. I  don't think PPL's need to practice this anymore but back in the day it was required, quite a roller coaster ride!

Edited July 24, 2019 by kosmonooit

[Bateleur1]

Difference is fighter pilots train for that - unsuspecting sky divers would likely have not been prepared at all.

 

Quite often getting out such a situation is counter-intuitive, for example getting out of a spin, the pilot needs to go through a procedure. There was another accident recently with a sky diving aircraft where the the pilot didnt get this right

 

 

It goes something like throttle off, rudder opposite to spin, once spin has stopped, pull back on control column to get out of the spin. I  don't think PPL's need to practice this anymore but back in the day it was required, quite a roller coaster ride!

 

Very informative thanks.

[Spokey]

Difference is fighter pilots train for that - unsuspecting sky divers would likely have not been prepared at all.

 

Quite often getting out such a situation is counter-intuitive, for example getting out of a spin, the pilot needs to go through a procedure. There was another accident recently with a sky diving aircraft where the the pilot didnt get this right

 

https://youtu.be/yrcatHWxqmQ

 

It goes something like throttle off, rudder opposite to spin, once spin has stopped, pull back on control column to get out of the dive. I  don't think PPL's need to practice this anymore but back in the day it was required, quite a roller coaster ride!

Back in the day when I used to instruct, we did spin training in C150 and C172 aircraft. It was normally very scary for a student and was indeed for me when learning to fly. But after doing a great deal of spins it became an easy thing to recover from and in fact good fun. These days (as far as I am aware) PPLs are taught to recover at the first sign of a wing drop, the incipient spin. Obviously this all means squat if there is structural failure. Your recovery above is good, but add a check forward on th column to help unstall the aerie. We would hold the yoke back with the throttle off and aim for a very high nose attitude. As the machine stalled and dropped a wing, kick the rudder in that direction, keeping the yoke full back. An exciting experience follows!

[kosmonooit]

Yes that what I heard, they have take spin recovery out of the PPL syllabus. Scary at first, but important as far as knowing your procedure and confidence in handling that rather hectic situation.

 

Apparently the exams side had become a bit on an obstacle now,

[Spokey]

Yes that what I heard, they have take spin recovery out of the PPL syllabus. Scary at first, but important as far as knowing your procedure and confidence in handling that rather hectic situation.

 

Apparently the exams side had become a bit on an obstacle now,

I honesty have no idea what the exams are like now. But the FAA, my gosh, a work up for the flight test but easy exams.

Sadly I do not know much of the SA system anymore

[MrJacques]

Sort of related. Keeping calm in those kind of situations isn't easy - it must be very disorienting.

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Jacquers

[Lotus]

Sort of related. Keeping calm in those kind of situations isn't easy - it must be very disorienting.

 

These simulations can get really hectic!

 

In the Navy we used to have a simulator of a ship's interior taking hits from shellfire (with very loud sound effects) while seawater was pumped through "cracks" to flood it. Your job was to close the cracks and jam the bursting hatches while it happened. Standing there up to your neck in water with loud bangs, smoke and holes appearing below your feet made it pretty exciting.

[Lotus]

Anyone watched these 'day in the life of a pilot" videos? I find them quite absorbing

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Lotus

[Velouria]

Back in the day when I used to instruct, we did spin training in C150 and C172 aircraft. It was normally very scary for a student and was indeed for me when learning to fly. But after doing a great deal of spins it became an easy thing to recover from and in fact good fun. These days (as far as I am aware) PPLs are taught to recover at the first sign of a wing drop, the incipient spin. Obviously this all means squat if there is structural failure. Your recovery above is good, but add a check forward on th column to help unstall the aerie. We would hold the yoke back with the throttle off and aim for a very high nose attitude. As the machine stalled and dropped a wing, kick the rudder in that direction, keeping the yoke full back. An exciting experience follows!

I used to own a Piper Tomahawk. That thing used to bring the most seasoned of instructors to their knees with the mere hint of spin training.

 

It didn't really "drop a wing". Instead, it would flip over like an excited Labrador wanting its stomach scratched. And then keep flipping over. Violently. While the intention was often to do incipient spin training, we'd often do the full monty. As soon as the plane stalled, off she went!

 

Two and a half rotations and a couple of thousand feet later there would be a rather clammy looking instructor sitting next to me

[SwissVan]

Tis really horrible, but if indeed the wing seperated then the resulting spin would give no one a chance to escape. Terrible if it did happen at 4000m, over 12000ft altitude. Would take a chunk of time to hit the ground..........nasty.

Recently a survey C210 had a wing separation in Oz with the loss of the crew members. This at low level.

Must be so aweful to be so helpless as the pilot.

I shudder to think what happened inside the cabin on the way down assuming that none of the pax would have been strapped in

[Spokey]

I used to own a Piper Tomahawk. That thing used to bring the most seasoned of instructors to their knees with the mere hint of spin training.

 

It didn't really "drop a wing". Instead, it would flip over like an excited Labrador wanting its stomach scratched. And then keep flipping over. Violently. While the intention was often to do incipient spin training, we'd often do the full monty. As soon as the plane stalled, off she went!

 

Two and a half rotations and a couple of thousand feet later there would be a rather clammy looking instructor sitting next to me

In the last century, when I as flying the piston singles, we as intructors referred to the Tomahawk as a “Traumahawk”.

[Velouria]

In the last century, when I as flying the piston singles, we as intructors referred to the Tomahawk as a “Traumahawk”.

Yup - it certainly lived up to its name.

 

Sadly, after selling her, it was involved in a crash and burned up. The two pilots survived...

[kosmonooit]

Yup - it certainly lived up to its name.

 

Sadly, after selling her, it was involved in a crash and burned up. The two pilots survived...

 

 

Which reminds me of one of the last time I flew myself - hired a lovely Piper Turbo and did a fantastic 5 day Namibia trip. First time with a GPS, they had just come to the market,  a bit klunky Garmin, still have it lol.

 

A week later the aircraft was destroyed on the slopes of the 'burg - flown by commercial pilots who did not survive.

 

Big Eek.

Edited July 29, 2019 by kosmonooit

[Patchelicious]

I used to own a Piper Tomahawk. That thing used to bring the most seasoned of instructors to their knees with the mere hint of spin training.

 

It didn't really "drop a wing". Instead, it would flip over like an excited Labrador wanting its stomach scratched. And then keep flipping over. Violently. While the intention was often to do incipient spin training, we'd often do the full monty. As soon as the plane stalled, off she went!

 

Two and a half rotations and a couple of thousand feet later there would be a rather clammy looking instructor sitting next to me

Where did you fly?

[SwissVan]

Where did you fly?

In the sky

 

????