Bike Hub Weight Challenge 2019

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Okay, I certainly don't have the time to read through all her sources, but I did check out those she referenced in regards to #4 . 

 

She's quite sly. She frequently references studies including participants on low carb diets. However, many of the participants were still eating ~30% carbs, with no reference to overall macro breakdown. Not nowhere near keto levels. None of the studies referenced were comparing keto diets vs other diets. She simply relies on the readers bias to not think critically about it and presume that 'low carb' meant keto. 

I find that that's the case with most of the nutritional studies over the web: The lack of control over macro-nutrient breakdown, and the reliance on epidemiological studies which just have a high-level view of what people record themselves eating etc, and not controlling for other lifestyle choices. 

 

Even most of the meta-analyses out there rely on the same epidemiological studies to reach a conclusion, and are therefore not controlled, either.  

[Ettas]

Okay, I certainly don't have the time to read through all her sources, but I did check out those she referenced in regards to #4 . 

 

She's quite sly. She frequently references studies including participants on low carb diets. However, many of the participants were still eating ~30% carbs, with no reference to overall macro breakdown. Not nowhere near keto levels. None of the studies referenced were comparing keto diets vs other diets. She simply relies on the readers bias to not think critically about it and presume that 'low carb' meant keto. 

Which number? Couldn't find the one you were referring to? 

[Ettas]

I'll agree with you that there has historically been issues with setting of national dietary guidelines. Not only in SA, but all over the world. Big pharma, dairy, beef, sugar, etc. etc. hold considerable sway over the committees setting the guidelines and have influenced them into setting guidelines which will get people to eat their crap food. However, there is change afoot. 

 

Have a look at the Flemish food 'pyramid'

 

 

 

The US has removed 'meat' as a mandatory food group and replaced it with 'protein', i.e. people should choose what they want to eat, beans, animal products, and so forth. 

 

 

Even Canada is revamping their food guidelines to emphasise more plant foods. 

 

This shows that there is a shift occurring, with the guidelines now more closely aligning with what so many studies are showing us - as you move along the spectrum and eat more whole plant foods, your health outcomes improve. 

 

Regarding the Noakes debacle, frankly, I'm not going there. I didn't follow it and I'm not going to wade in now. 

 

Good luck with the challenge. Don't want to change the thread to a nutrition debate. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Ettas

[Odinson]

Which number? Couldn't find the one you were referring to? 

 

Okay, last post here, as we're derailing this. 

 

In the link posted by gifs. Point # has a bunch of references. 

 

Ref # 18 (meta-analysis, so you have no idea what the actual carb intake was across all studies and again, low-carb, not keto was being studied): 

 

 

 

Conclusions  Low-carbohydrate, non–energy-restricted diets appear to be at least as effective as low-fat, energy-restricted diets in inducing weight loss for up to 1 year. However, potential favorable changes in triglyceride and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol values should be weighed against potential unfavorable changes in low-density lipoprotein cholesterol values when low-carbohydrate diets to induce weight loss are considered.

 

Guess who funded the study: SwissMilk! 

 

Ref #19 - busted link.

 

Ref #20 

 

 

NTERVENTION: A low-carbohydrate (<40 g/d) or low-fat (<30% of daily energy intake from total fat [<7% saturated fat]) diet. Both groups received dietary counseling at regular intervals throughout the trial.

MEASUREMENTS: Data on weight, cardiovascular risk factors, and dietary composition were collected at 0, 3, 6, and 12 months.

RESULTS: Sixty participants (82%) in the low-fat group and 59 (79%) in the low-carbohydrate group completed the intervention. At 12 months, participants on the low-carbohydrate diet had greater decreases in weight (mean difference in change, -3.5 kg [95% CI, -5.6 to -1.4 kg]; P = 0.002), fat mass (mean difference in change, -1.5% [CI, -2.6% to -0.4%]; P = 0.011), ratio of total-high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol (mean difference in change, -0.44 [CI, -0.71 to -0.16]; P = 0.002), and triglyceride level (mean difference in change, -0.16 mmol/L [-14.1 mg/dL] [CI, -0.31 to -0.01 mmol/L {-27.4 to -0.8 mg/dL}]; P = 0.038) and greater increases in HDL cholesterol level (mean difference in change, 0.18 mmol/L [7.0 mg/dL] [CI, 0.08 to 0.28 mmol/L {3.0 to 11.0 mg/dL}]; P < 0.001) than those on the low-fat diet.

LIMITATION: Lack of clinical cardiovascular disease end points.

CONCLUSION: The low-carbohydrate diet was more effective for weight loss and cardiovascular risk factor reduction than the low-fat diet. Restricting carbohydrate may be an option for persons seeking to lose weight and reduce cardiovascular risk factors.

 

Again, low-carb, not keto. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Okay, last post here, as we're derailing this. 

 

In the link posted by gifs. Point # has a bunch of references. 

 

Ref # 18 (meta-analysis, so you have no idea what the actual carb intake was across all studies and again, low-carb, not keto was being studied): 

 

 

Guess who funded the study: SwissMilk! 

 

Ref #19 - busted link.

 

Ref #20 

 

 

Again, low-carb, not keto. 

it's almost keto. Less than 40g from carbohydrate sources per day, and most keto proponents will tell you it should be under 25-30g. 

 

Also - need to differentiate between Therapeutic Keto (the one proven to help treat epileptics) and Standard Keto. People without epilepsy need not be on the Therapeutic one, nor ingest huge amounts of fat each day, especially if they're trying to lose fat mass in their bodies. 

[coppi]

I did intermittent fasting last year and lost 7kg over 40 days ( during lent )

I now want to adopt this as a lifestyle with a 16/8 fasting daily ie. from 20h00 at night until 12h00 the next day zero intake, only water or tea ( 16 hours fasting ). At 12h00 have a light lunch, followed by a nice supper before 20h00

( 8 hours food intake period )..............lets see what happens.

I prefer a lifestyle change like this rather than following a complicated diet...........

Edited January 10, 2019 by coppi

[Uni]

 

this was rather entertaining ... 

[PieterJvR]

I did intermittent fasting last year and lost 7kg over 40 days ( during lent )

I now want to adopt this as a lifestyle with a 16/8 fasting daily ie. from 20h00 at night until 12h00 the next day zero intake, only water or tea ( 16 hours fasting ). At 12h00 have a light lunch, followed by a nice supper before 20h00

( 8 hours food intake period )..............lets see what happens.

I prefer a lifestyle change like this rather than following a complicated diet...........

 

I have thought of doing this before, just had one concern and that was how I will feel on the bike without eating in the morning and then only eating at midday.  This is however dependent on one of 2 things.  Did you follow this fasting process even when doing a 3-4 hour ride the next morning?  Or only when doing a 1-2 hour ride?  I can probably go read up on it but find real world experience more valuable. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I have thought of doing this before, just had one concern and that was how I will feel on the bike without eating in the morning and then only eating at midday.  This is however dependent on one of 2 things.  Did you follow this fasting process even when doing a 3-4 hour ride the next morning?  Or only when doing a 1-2 hour ride?  I can probably go read up on it but find real world experience more valuable. 

out of experience - it SUCKS for the first few weeks if you try and go balls to the wall, cos your body is used to having external fuel sources for exertion, not your fat stores. zone 2/3 isn't an issue. 

[coppi]

I have thought of doing this before, just had one concern and that was how I will feel on the bike without eating in the morning and then only eating at midday.  This is however dependent on one of 2 things.  Did you follow this fasting process even when doing a 3-4 hour ride the next morning?  Or only when doing a 1-2 hour ride?  I can probably go read up on it but find real world experience more valuable. 

I have been cycling for over 10 years and always prefer to do a fasted ride anyway, I don't like to eat anything before I race or go out..........even 3-4 hour rides. Being a good Italian an espresso in the morning is a must !

Edited January 10, 2019 by coppi

[PieterJvR]

out of experience - it SUCKS for the first few weeks if you try and go balls to the wall, cos your body is used to having external fuel sources for exertion, not your fat stores. zone 2/3 isn't an issue. 

 

Thought it might, will give it a go for the first two months of the year and see how I feel.  Worst it can be is that it feels crap, but I must just push through.  Thanks

 

I have been cycling for over 10 years and always prefer to do a fasted ride anyway, I don't like to eat anything before I race or go out..........even 3-4 hour rides. Being a good Italian an espresso in the morning is a must !

 

Thanks, will give this a try for a while.  And agree on the highlighted bit

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Thought it might, will give it a go for the first two months of the year and see how I feel.  Worst it can be is that it feels crap, but I must just push through.  Thanks

 

 

Thanks, will give this a try for a while.  And agree on the highlighted bit

You'll eventually find that the coffee (black - milk will break the fast) will give you enough boost for the ride. 

[lenzman]

You'll eventually find that the coffee (black - milk will break the fast) will give you enough boost for the ride. 

 

https://jamesclear.com/reader-mailbag-intermittent-fasting

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

https://jamesclear.com/reader-mailbag-intermittent-fasting

yeeeeah, I've seen that before, but rather err on the side of caution and just drink it black. Some people like lots of milk in their coffee.... Also, it's still calories that you're ingesting, so I don't really trust that "you can eat up to 50cal while fasting and not break a fast"... If it were true, it'd also be dependent on the individual. I'd categorise this under the bro-science until I see definitive evidence for it, tbh.  

[Veebee]

down 2kg this week, didnt want to jump on the scale but I really just wanted to see if I was going in the right direction...

 

now to push on with the IF and clean eating.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

down 2kg this week, didnt want to jump on the scale but I really just wanted to see if I was going in the right direction...

 

now to push on with the IF and clean eating.

Nice one, VeeBee.