Enduro/gravity bike suspension and geo

[Eddy Gordo]

2 hours ago, MORNE said:

Rear only, or front and rear? 
also, i probably need to check the spacers in both at some stage. Previous owner wasnt sure what he had in there. He thinks there is 1x volume spacer in the fox x2 and that the lyrik might still have the stock ones in it which should be about 2, but then the fork has been reduced to 160mm too with new internals, so not sure what came out after that went in (its a 180/170mm version)

anyway, im gonna bump up the air for less sag and see how it feels, obviously more poppy. @Jewbacca and @PhilipV, the stock droplink setup for the shock as per cotic is supposedly in the more ‘bouncy side’ of the spectrum. They say it is unconventional for bikes like these(presumedly in uk) but to try it anyway. Ill set it at a few clicks in from fully open/fast.

 

20% on the rear shock. But it also dependant on what you want the rear to do. I could never run my fox shocks at anything more than 20% sag and then it would constantly hit the bottom out rubber. Even at 20% depending on how big the hit is.

[MORNE]

1 hour ago, Jewbacca said:

Less Sag doesn't mean more pop unfortunately. Please don't just pump up the forks/shock and expect things to 'liven up'. What you will have is a big dead bike that doesn't use it's travel, feels harsh and isn'y moving how it was meant to  move from where it was meant to move.

Rather dial your rebound up. One sits in the travel to fill in the gaps so you have rubber on the ground which gives you better traction and better speed control. The optimal feel and geo is also set to work from that point in the curves.

Having a 160mm bike at 20% is even more rubbish. 

I bought in a Vitus Escarpe which was long and slack and was 150mm front and rear. It felt dead and cumbersome when I took it for a test round the easy trails in tokai.

I hit DH0 and immediately it felt like it belonged there, carrying speed, forcing me to lean it hard and get on the back wheel or float all the step down and drops. 

It was too much bike for what I enjoy riding so I swapped it for a Jeffsy.

Those Cotic Rockets are rad, but you do need to go fast and gnar to really bring them to life.

Maybe take it to the Droos at Stoke and ask them what's what. They will be more than happy to sort you out with proper knowledge and know how. They are consummate bike dorks

Basically this and as @PhilipV alluded to…i need to learn to ride it differently from what i’m used to. I get it.
I also now fully get why it would be so difficult for someone to do what i did in reverse…as in having never ridden anything but full squish and then get on a hardtail or even worse…rigid hardtail on a trail for the first time haha.

The idea of it forcing me to manhandle it more to come alive sort of gets me excited. I always knew i was going to have to learn to ride it. It’s just at the speeds im currently comfortable going, be it due to low confidence, lack of skill or body language -  it feels like the way it looks in army green….like a 16kg heavy ass tank on air suspension lol.

thanks for the input so far.

[aiyaaz]

47 minutes ago, MORNE said:

Basically this and as @PhilipV alluded to…i need to learn to ride it differently from what i’m used to. I get it.
I also now fully get why it would be so difficult for someone to do what i did in reverse…as in having never ridden anything but full squish and then get on a hardtail or even worse…rigid hardtail on a trail for the first time haha.

The idea of it forcing me to manhandle it more to come alive sort of gets me excited. I always knew i was going to have to learn to ride it. It’s just at the speeds im currently comfortable going, be it due to low confidence, lack of skill or body language -  it feels like the way it looks in army green….like a 16kg heavy ass tank on air suspension lol.

thanks for the input so far.

I'm pretty much in the same boat, having only ever ridden road bikes and XC/marathon hardtails or FS bikes. Now I no longer have any of those bikes, but recently acquired a Trek Slash (F-170mm/R-160mm), but I can feel that I am holding the bike back due to a lack of skill and being too bang-gat! haha

I may have also bitten off more than I can chew by committing to flat pedals after having only ever ridden clip-less...needless to say, it feels like I am learning to ride a bike all over again!

[MORNE]

6 minutes ago, aiyaaz said:

I'm pretty much in the same boat, having only ever ridden road bikes and XC/marathon hardtails or FS bikes. Now I no longer have any of those bikes, but recently acquired a Trek Slash (F-170mm/R-160mm), but I can feel that I am holding the bike back due to a lack of skill and being too bang-gat! haha

I may have also bitten off more than I can chew by committing to flat pedals after having only ever ridden clip-less...needless to say, it feels like I am learning to ride a bike all over again!

Then we can suck together and joke and learn together about it. At keast we are trying🤣. I have experience with flats but that was some years ago. I bought some pedals for this bike only to find out I cant get flats in my size anywhere. (Size14 lol), they are in classifieds now …and my usual go to in that regard- spez- have no stock in the country. I wear a size 49/50 in spez shoes lol. But atleast they sell man sizes. Unlike Leatt who only sell children sizes (up to 11) which is strange for an SA brand. 

[Pieter1]

5 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

Big bikes on small trails always feel a bit junk until you start going faster.... I'd be tempted to ramp up your rebound and maybe add a spacer or two in the air can so you still get your sag, but have slightly more ramp into your travel.

But that sounds mostly like big bike syndrome. They only really feel alive when going fast and going over stuff

I had a similar feeling with my bike. Did as you are describing wrt rebound on my shock (dpx2) and added a volume spacer to my Lyrik (RC2) 

Bike feels really good now. 

[Bos]

I think in these forums there can be great value added, but also just a bunch of opinions to confuse people. So I thought I'd share my experience from the race on here having had strava PR's on every stage, the clock cant be wrong.

As you know from threads, I've been puzzling with tires before Jonkers EWC. After getting my Manitou Mezzer and getting that dialed, I've definitely been hitting things harder/faster with the gained confidence, perhaps reaching the limit of my existing equipment faster, which led to a couple of upgrades but also lots of fine tuning.

I thoroughly enjoyed the EWC race yesterday and the feeling riding a dialed bike, by the last stage I was riding lines I would usually not have even noticed, and staying off the brakes much longer. I felt the extra confidence and resulting speed from my upgrades which was really satisfying.

I got the Manitou Mezzer first, then upgraded to Shimano 4 pot brakes, then got the Assegai up front.  The brakes was a surprise to me, as I was a die hard shimano 2 pot user, but the milliseconds you slow down faster with more power before turns lets you get off the brakes faster, you time the turns better and the bike behaves better when you're not braking= more exit speed...and it snowballs.

I was tempted to convert my fork to 170mm just for Plumber really and because I could, but decided it was to much effort and added a 5mm headset spacer and upped my Mezzer IRT pressure by 6 PSI(its a air chamber in stead of volume spacers). The 6PSI in the IRT made the fork ride higher, on the steep stuff and in big holes between rocks. It was another case where firmer can end up feeling better as one rides the mid-stroke and not the end ramp. The slightly higher front end was also noticed although negatively so on Irish.

The Assegai has more outright grip than the DHF, and while we don't always need it, I went for the slightly in-between option of the Assegai 2.5WT Maxx Terra, which I didn't find to slow rolling so far. The DHF's little release moment is just not confidence inspiring and as I realized again yesterday, confidence unlocks the next level. I was "no-braking" lots of turns, which may have been possible with the DHF, but I just didn't have the confidence to go for it. 

I get a buzz when these puzzling's pay off and one can actually improve your riding, even at my Ballie age.

[Headshot]

@MORNE - I think we all have our off days, weeks or months on a bike but I also think that set up helps a lot. I have just got my original Monarch Plus up and running after RS decided to belatedly make the missing spare part it needed available. I was supposed to ride the Enduro this weekend so I refitted the RS and went for a test ride. It feels  different to the Ohlins, mainly because of the firmer compression tune I think. Bike seemed to have a bit more pop and may also have been a tad more harsh but better and more supportive over all. You have a very adjustable shock there so perhaps experiment a bit with low and high speed compression damping - just to keep the back a bit higher in its travel and resist the Gs better in fast berms. 

The other thing I changed recently was my bar for a 75mm rise. This is probably the biggest eye opener for me. I weigh about the same as you and am 1.88m and always struggle with low stack height and too low bars even on XL frames. 

I expected the higher bar to make steep stuff feel better and it does, but the biggest improvement has been in fast corners and berms. The weight distribution front to back has changed with the higher bar and I feel far more centered on the bike with a far better sense of what the wheels are doing. I have never ridden the JH berms as confidently and fast as I did last time I was there. Its quite amazing. So, if you are tall, and your bars are XC low because of a low stack height, you may find that bringing your hands up with a bigger rise bar will help the cornering as it has for me.