Dear mountain bikers.. from trail runners

[Eddy Gordo]

Some food for thought

 

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/toddler-traumatised-after-dog-attack-leaves-her-face-damaged-20181018

Labrador attacks

 

 

https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2018-12-13-woman-wins-damages-over-dog-attack-in-cape-town-resorts-pool/

 

https://www.iol.co.za/capeargus/news/103-dog-attacks-responded-to-in-2017-12270264

 

 

https://www.claimhelp.co.za/dog-bite-attacks/

[Jewbacca]

I think you have ignored the point about the unleashed Collie chasing the cyclist which appears to have been the trigger for the whole incident.  You didn't see the incident, like the rest of us, but are imputing all sorts of interpretations and motives to the parties  involved. Not to mention telling us how a doggie feels when it was "buzzed' by a cyclist. This really made me smile. You don't even know the dog was angry - maybe he was just having a jol? I think he was feeling full of fun and wanted to have a game with the spinning wheels of death :-) 

 

IMO Its a given that no cyclist wants to crash so the claim that the rider hit the dog on purpose is probably nonsense. I once had a dog run straight in front of my bike from the side and it got stuck between the front wheel and the chainring. Somehow i didnt crash and the dog ran off unharmed. Dogs are tough beasts and beat eachother up in play all the time, a fact which owners conveniently ignore.

 

The dog chased the rider but somehow this turns into an issue of riders going too fast past the dogs. There is no basis for that conclusion in the dog lover's post. 

 

To me its simple, the dog owner had a hyperactive breed of dog, unleashed in a multiuse trail area and it chased someone. She/he conveniently turns it into a "speeding cyclists" issue. The speed of the cyclists is in no way something we can tell from the post - the opinion of the dog owner does not count. All we know for sure  is that  darling dog chasd some bikes and got hit. 

 

As an aside, I was out on my MTB a few months ago and as I crossed a busy main road, saw a couple and their large retriever exit a trail system to my right, onto the pavement. The dog was unleashed and there was a lot of traffic about. The dog suddenly ran into the street and was hit and rolled under the chassis of a small white car. I had already crossed the road and immediately dumped my bike and told the man and the driver to help me lift the car up to release the dog. It scampered away to be attended to by its owners but appeared to be able to run on all fours. 

 

Whats the difference between this ^^ and the unleased dogs in the park chasing cyclists? Other than in the park the cyclist could get injured while the car driver would not? 

I think you just said what I said but differently..... 

[Eddy Gordo]

Some food for thought

 

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/toddler-traumatised-after-dog-attack-leaves-her-face-damaged-20181018

Labrador attacks

 

 

https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2018-12-13-woman-wins-damages-over-dog-attack-in-cape-town-resorts-pool/

 

https://www.iol.co.za/capeargus/news/103-dog-attacks-responded-to-in-2017-12270264

 

 

https://www.claimhelp.co.za/dog-bite-attacks/

 

 

 

That lackadaisical attitude by dog  owners will cost them

[Headshot]

I think you just said what I said but differently..... 

No, I think you have let the dog owners off the hook. If the dog parents i describe had acted properly, their dog would not have been hit, same as the dog owner at the park. The cyclist and motorist had almost no control over the situation that developed. The kiddies on scooters analogy just bolsters my point. 

 

This is not to say that we should not all be careful but I think the primary responsibility is with the dog/human parent in these situations. 

[Dirkitech]

hahahaha without grammar, little can be conveyed!

 

Dogs will seldom chase anything that isn't moving really fast or has a motorbike engine!

 

My point is more that if those 'speeding' cyclists had looked, seen an excited dog, slowed down and then sped up again when they were passed, they probably could have avoided hitting the dog.

 

If you were driving and you saw a bunch of kids riding their tricycles  next to the road you would slow down in case one of them rode out into the road because, well, they are kids who don't understand that they will die. Much like hounds.

 

Personally I don't take my dog walking anywhere near where I know cyclists will be because I am afraid she will be hit. She likes to run and climb rocks and roll in fynbos and be free.... 

Agreed, lexis ftw!

It is a tricky situation. While I agree with you about taking precautions etc (don't want to discuss semantics, because we don't know if the cyclists already slowed down, if the dog chased from behind but ran to the front, ...), but the fact that dogs must be leashed in most public spaces means that there was little onus on the cyclists to anticipate a leashless dog. On the other hand with the kids riding tricycles analogy, then there is of course an onus on the cyclists (being lawful road users) to anticipate an unpredictable situation beginning.

 

I think he have mostly the same positive attitude towards the topic. Like you, I don't often take our dobermans for a walk because I know they aren't socially trained anymore and an accident could happen at any moment, meaning it would really be irresponsible and my fault.

 

Regarding the bolded sentence of yours - that's exactly why I made prior reference to behavioral science in dogs. There are very plausible scientific theories behind why dogs would in many cases quickly decide to chase a cyclist or motorcyclist as opposed to a runner and it has to do with the fluid linear movements vs oscillation movements more than anything else. Quite interesting to know and understand really.

 

 

This actually reminds me of a dog lying beside a tree out of view that leapt out a few weeks back biting me on the foot - if the dog was either locked in on private property or on a leash, it wouldn't have happened, but also anticipating a dog behind every tree is madness. I phoned the spca to report the roaming dog (it was within 100m from a public park with many kids) but I don't know if they ever follow up with warnings. Can anyone share their recent experiences with Jhb SPCA's?

[Barry_W]

Not too mention its the law, but people love not following the law

The law states that your dog must be on a leash on public roads and parks except where permitted. On the mountain in Sanparks areas your dog must only be on a leash at entrances, picnic spots and some other sensitive areas.

So basically the people with dogs off leash walking on Table Mountain are not breaking any law.

[Headshot]

The law states that your dog must be on a leash on public roads and parks except where permitted. On the mountain in Sanparks areas your dog must only be on a leash at entrances, picnic spots and some other sensitive areas.

So basically the people with dogs off leash walking on Table Mountain are not breaking any law.

Agreed, but not breaking a law does not absolve the dog owners from keeping their dog under control. If they can't control their dogs without a leash then surely they should use one? If they don't control their animals and a person is bitten or a rider falls because the dog ran in front of him/her, the dog owner is liable for damages to the person. The Romans knew this 2000 years ago which is where our common law claim against a damage causing animal originated. 

[Eddy Gordo]

Only in designated areas.

Also 

You must have a permit

Dog handlers should be sensitive to other park users......

Dog handlers should not allow their dogs to interfere with the pleasure of other users in the park.

 

 

So its not just letting your dog run free. You also have to be in control of the dog

 

 

An interactive guide to walking your dog in the Table Mountain National Park - SANParks

PDF

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.sanparks.org/docs/parks_table_mountain/tourism/dog-walking.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjbguqkqNngAhWDsHEKHXNkCFQQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw05bRmCJW9ephOv1FHmYuDi

[Eddy Gordo]

For those who said they will destroy the dog

 

TMNP are responsible for managing dogs on their property as per the National Parks Act 57 of 1976. Section 24 (11) of this Act clearly states that any dog (except a dog in the lawful possession or custody of an officer or employee) found within a park may be destroyed. In the TMNP dog owners may however walk their dogs in certain areas (eg Misty Cliffs) as long as they adhere to the TMNP Dog Walking Code of Conduct (above) which TMNP staff enforce. Whilst TMNP staff are loathe to destroy any dog on TMNP property they will not hesitate to do so if a dog is found to be hunting or disturbing a wild animal. Dogs not hunting or disturbing wild animals that are found wandering unattended in the TMNP will be caught and taken to the SPCA. The consequence for repeat offenders is that the dog will be destroyed. This is not a situation the TMNP staff would wish to find themselves in, however, failure to act accordingly would mean that the TMNP staff are not upholding their mandate. Offenders can be reported to 021-780-9100 (Jackie Simon or Amos Lombo).

[Eddy Gordo]

It probably sounds like I hate dogs.

Truth is I used to u have a thorough bred bull terrier. Its parent were both s.a champs. This dog was massive for a bull terrier. It was in my early 20's when we had him.

Whenever I took him out, it was always on a leash. Infact it used to take me for a walk, pulling the leash firm and walking with purpose. People used to turn around and walk away. 

Funny thing is that this dog was so tame, that even the dog trainers couldnt get it to attack. One neighbour a few roads away would always play and pet him.

One day a ball came over our wall, the dog didnt do a thing. My dad went out to see what the noise was. When he was chatting to the back neighbour's about the ball, the dog went beserk. The one and only time.

I dont trust dogs, i never will. Will admire them from far.

[Barry_W]

Only in designated areas.

Also 

You must have a permit

Dog handlers should be sensitive to other park users......

Dog handlers should not allow their dogs to interfere with the pleasure of other users in the park.

 

 

So its not just letting your dog run free. You also have to be in control of the dog

 

 

An interactive guide to walking your dog in the Table Mountain National Park - SANParks

PDF

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.sanparks.org/docs/parks_table_mountain/tourism/dog-walking.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjbguqkqNngAhWDsHEKHXNkCFQQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw05bRmCJW9ephOv1FHmYuDi

I agree totally, I was just pointing out your blanket comment "Not too mention its the law, but people love not following the law"  This is just like the motorists that say "cyclists are not allowed on the road" which is technically correct where there is a bike path adjoining the road but not the law on every road.

[V18]

Hell. I love dogs. All dogs. But they aren't humans. And I don't even trust humans. Instincts are hardwired into us all. Dogs have less holding their instinctive reactions at bay (although some humans make me wonder). Generally speaking, I'm very uncomfortable cycling past dogs. Even if on a leash. If I had a few bucks for every septic dog bite calve I've seen resulting major destructive debridements... I'd have at least... Enough for a new drivetrain. Dogs on trails. Damn. You have to be careful

[DieselnDust]

i know, thought about this.

 

so what does one do then? attack the owner, then you'll have the dog after you anyway?

 

i reckon my stance is, at 5-10m away, at the top of my voice, "PLEASE KEEP YOUR DOG!!!" then slowly pass with a smile and wave

 

I take the approach of not showing the dog fear. Then get off and introduce myself to the dog. Usually if you don;t show fear they pacify and the owner chills. Then you have a conversation about keeping the dog on a lead. If the owner is panicking  you're only going to be the aggressor in their eyes

[DieselnDust]

Hell. I love dogs. All dogs. But they aren't humans. And I don't even trust humans. Instincts are hardwired into us all. Dogs have less holding their instinctive reactions at bay (although some humans make me wonder). Generally speaking, I'm very uncomfortable cycling past dogs. Even if on a leash. If I had a few bucks for every septic dog bite calve I've seen resulting major destructive debridements... I'd have at least... Enough for a new drivetrain. Dogs on trails. Damn. You have to be careful

 

A dog on a leash is more dangerous and unpredictable then a dog off the leash. They're more defensive and protective. I prefer them off the leash and just slow down and speak to them in a nice friendly voice. Maybe 1in100 dogs are dangerous if this the approach and if its a total freak the owners will generally keep them muzzled

[Eddy Gordo]

I agree totally, I was just pointing out your blanket comment "Not too mention its the law, but people love not following the law"  This is just like the motorists that say "cyclists are not allowed on the road" which is technically correct where there is a bike path adjoining the road but not the law on every road.

Aah, ok, my apologies then. I see your point 

[Dirkitech]

A dog on a leash is more dangerous and unpredictable then a dog off the leash. They're more defensive and protective. I prefer them off the leash and just slow down and speak to them in a nice friendly voice. Maybe 1in100 dogs are dangerous if this the approach and if its a total freak the owners will generally keep them muzzled

1 in a 100? 2 out of 2 of my dobies are safer, limited and predictable on a leash. The dog can only pull as hard as they can hold their breath for anyways - the whole point behind choker leashes, but of course not everyone uses them and also not everyone walks teenanger sized dogs