Does 650b have a future?

[Fruity]

26 can be fast. But 29ers are fastest. Why else would all the world cup dh guys be going to the big wheels? And as the geometry keeps getting better they are more fun to ride as well. Can actually smash corners properly now!

I had the most fun on 26ers, especially on the GT Zaskar 26er hardtail I had, and the Raleigh Marathon 6.0 dually. 29ers just gave me that extra bit of confidence on the trails.

[jimmy hardtail]

I'm really tall so after 25 years of 26ers my first 29er was the first bike that fitted me properly. It's a double xl but still. Like a glove

[Eddy Gordo]

A small group that I ride with believe in 29ers. About 3 guys on 29ers, one 650b and myself and another on 26ers when i still had mine. They would struggle to keep up in places like eden and hoogekraal. I am not the fittest either, and these guys enter events on a regular basis. Some of the features on these trails, they would just roll over at a snails pace.

 

Basically its the rider at the end of the day. The person who bought my 26er badly wanted a 26er and did not want 650b or 29. Argument as always, its more playful and still fast.

[Eddy Gordo]

A small group that I ride with believe in 29ers. About 3 guys on 29ers, one 650b and myself and another on 26ers when i still had mine. They would struggle to keep up in places like eden and hoogekraal. I am not the fittest either, and these guys enter events on a regular basis. Some of the features on these trails, they would just roll over at a snails pace.

 

Basically its the rider at the end of the day. The person who bought my 26er badly wanted a 26er and did not want 650b or 29. Argument as always, its more playful and still fast.

[Stretch]

A small group that I ride with believe in 29ers. About 3 guys on 29ers, one 650b and myself and another on 26ers when i still had mine. They would struggle to keep up in places like eden and hoogekraal. I am not the fittest either, and these guys enter events on a regular basis. Some of the features on these trails, they would just roll over at a snails pace.

 

Basically its the rider at the end of the day. The person who bought my 26er badly wanted a 26er and did not want 650b or 29. Argument as always, its more playful and still fast.

Yes and no.... When I was training for sani a few years back I used to always drop my partner on hills. Both of us on 26". He upgraded and next ride he was with me on the hill. It does make a difference.

 

That said.. Funniest 26 29 story I have is the previous year sani we were both on 26 and on the final day through the sugarcane there's plenty of opportunity for drafting.. So you get these long trains.... The two of us were up front pulling this long line of guys on 29"behind us [emoji16]

[Jewbacca]

But is the 'racing' from the past aspect relevant in this context?

 

I kind of thought the OP was saying 'now that 29ers come in all guises from DH to Enduro to Broduro to racing and they all work' is there a relevant place for 650b IF the 29er platform (as dictated by the big brands) is as good all round as it is being advertised.

 

I was under the impression (in this context) it was agreed that, barring the size of midgets, children and small ladies, the 29er platform had been and was being perfected across all disciplines?

 

Tales from yesteryear are irrelevant due to the massive changes and progressions made in 29er Geo, handling and efficiency in the last 12-18 months which has 'levelled the field'.

 

But maybe I'm wrong in understanding the hypothetical side of this....... 

[DieselnDust]

As I mentioned in a previous post, size S and XS will still have a place for the smaller wheel. No need to get all condescending about it (your reference to midgets....).

 

Then is the choice side of it. many people and manufacturers still prefer the 650B platform for their products.

 

Then there is gravel.

 

Your tone does not suggest the neutrality you think you project.

 

Will these 650B's be designed out in future? 

it depends, can the industry stomach so many standards for much longer while economy of scale suffers in a declining market?

 

Economics may well decide rather than technical superiority of any of the options

[Headshot]

The massive changes in geo, bike fit and construction materials is very relevant. A 26er with all of that is a killer too. My HT has up to date geo and smashes the DH, small contact patch be dammed, it has better grip than the 650b bike with fatter tyres... I would love to try a modern geo, slackish 26er hardtail than weighs under 10kg. That would be a realistic comparison to the 29er HT XC bikes of today. 

 

That said I do think the bike companies will build bikes in both wheel sizes but be guided by sales. You'll find fewer models in 650b going forward and it will become more of a niche. Run of the mill MTB newbies will end up on a 29er 99% of the time. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

But is the 'racing' from the past aspect relevant in this context?

 

I kind of thought the OP was saying 'now that 29ers come in all guises from DH to Enduro to Broduro to racing and they all work' is there a relevant place for 650b IF the 29er platform (as dictated by the big brands) is as good all round as it is being advertised.

 

I was under the impression (in this context) it was agreed that, barring the size of midgets, children and small ladies, the 29er platform had been and was being perfected across all disciplines?

 

Tales from yesteryear are irrelevant due to the massive changes and progressions made in 29er Geo, handling and efficiency in the last 12-18 months which has 'levelled the field'.

 

But maybe I'm wrong in understanding the hypothetical side of this....... 

No, I don't think you are wrong, and DiD is reading heavily in terms of "tone" of your post, from behind his particular tint of glasses. 

 

All things remaining equal, I think that there will be a point like the one you describe. Where S / XS bikes are 650, and medium & up are 29er. HOWEVER - and this is a big one. The gyroscopic effect of a larger wheel & tyre combo (not to mention the extra weight it carries) is not to be discounted, and will definitely affect the way a bike handles. This is (imo) what affects the difference in handling characteristics between 2 bikes of equal geo, but diff wheelsizes, and makes one "playful" and the other "stable" 

 

Maybe it'll result in bikes like the Scott Gambler, which can comfortably take 650 & 29er wheelsizes, and YOU, the user, decide which suits you best. It's not difficult to design into the current crop of frames, super boost plus 157 be damned. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

 

Your tone does not suggest the neutrality you think you project.

 

I think you're reading too much into it, and finding "tone" when all there is is a question posed to promote thought and discussion. 

 

Agreed on your final statement, though. 

[GTRacing]

Whats the consensus on a long travel 650b then?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Whats the consensus on a long travel 650b then?

of all bikes, you chose THAT as your example of a long travel 6 fiddy!? Blegh. 

 

Personally, IDGAF about wheel size. How the bike rides (which is mostly independent of wheelsize, until you compare 2 exact same bikes to each other with diff wheels) is most important. Lately I've been wanting a more engaging ride than what my steamroller gives me, but that's down to the bike rather than the wheelsize. 

[Yo-Yo]

Interesting views on the 650 / 29 perceived advantages and also on the discussion around frames becoming heavier and how ordinary the carbon fibre in the cycling industry is. from 28m in for the start of the wheels, weight discussion. 

http://www.downtimepodcast.com/starling-cycles/

[Jewbacca]

No, I don't think you are wrong, and DiD is reading heavily in terms of "tone" of your post, from behind his particular tint of glasses. 

 

All things remaining equal, I think that there will be a point like the one you describe. Where S / XS bikes are 650, and medium & up are 29er. HOWEVER - and this is a big one. The gyroscopic effect of a larger wheel & tyre combo (not to mention the extra weight it carries) is not to be discounted, and will definitely affect the way a bike handles. This is (imo) what affects the difference in handling characteristics between 2 bikes of equal geo, but diff wheelsizes, and makes one "playful" and the other "stable" 

 

Maybe it'll result in bikes like the Scott Gambler, which can comfortably take 650 & 29er wheelsizes, and YOU, the user, decide which suits you best. It's not difficult to design into the current crop of frames, super boost plus 157 be damned. 

Does he know that I am hobbit sized myself?

 

Maybe my tone did come across a bit condescending. I'm sorry. It wasn't meant to.

 

It was more meant to drag the thread back to the topic. Discussing rider skill and fitness detracts from what is quite an interesting 'cross roads'.

 

Someone said that a 26er with awesome geo is also rad. True. BUT does it give you the same benefits of an equally dialled bike with a different wheelsize.

 

For me that is the question. Does the gyroscopic force effect DH/Enduro bikes enough to make them less 'fun' with said dialled Geo?

 

If not, then it comes down to all things bike. Rider preference. 

 

I'm still interested in 650b with 2.6 tires. I think that could be a sweet spot.

 

29ers with 2.6 tires.... sjoe. That's a lot of rubber! 

[Yo-Yo]

29ers with 2.6 tires.... sjoe. That's a lot of rubber! 

Then that could open the whole 'how big is 2.6 really' discussion. I've got 2.6 on the front that is dwarfed by my previous 2.4. Maybe we need a new niche in the tyre land for the 2.6 tyres that people talk about in reviews either claim to be great grippers that add more plush & grip or counter claim make the handling vague and a 2.4 would add more precise handling. I'd call that the semi-fat segment 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Does he know that I am hobbit sized myself?

 

Maybe my tone did come across a bit condescending. I'm sorry. It wasn't meant to.

 

It was more meant to drag the thread back to the topic. Discussing rider skill and fitness detracts from what is quite an interesting 'cross roads'.

 

Someone said that a 26er with awesome geo is also rad. True. BUT does it give you the same benefits of an equally dialled bike with a different wheelsize.

 

For me that is the question. Does the gyroscopic force effect DH/Enduro bikes enough to make them less 'fun' with said dialled Geo?

 

If not, then it comes down to all things bike. Rider preference. 

 

I'm still interested in 650b with 2.6 tires. I think that could be a sweet spot.

 

29ers with 2.6 tires.... sjoe. That's a lot of rubber! 

I think it's just different. Gyro effects and different rollover characteristics need to be considered when choosing between 26/6fiddy/29. But then that shouldn't be the reason to choose a 29er of one brand over a 6Fiddy of another, as the differences in geo may lead to the naainer being counterintuitively more playful than the 6fiddy. 

 

I think we also need to differentiate between those enduro pros & DH pros who are just looking at outright speed and lower times, vs the rest of us who aren't necessarily interested in that. The search for outright speed may lead one to go for a niner, as they simply roll over things that little bit more efficiently, from a mechanical perspective. 

 

For me, it doesn't matter what's fastest. It matters how a bike makes me enjoy the ride. Sometimes that's extra speed, sure, but others, it's just a certain something that makes me go BAZINGA.