The Abortion Issue

[Robbie Stewart]

Robbie, these guys all have lots of followers... how do you know they are not the Messiah?

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/08/new-messiahs-jesus-christ-second-coming-photos/

 

Because, when He comes, every eye will see Him. Like lightning flashes in the east, and is seen in the west, so will His coming be. I don't need to go anywhere to see Him. ALL people will see Him, because He is Omnipresent.

[Stretch]

I need to work.... It's been fun

[Shebeen]

this whole debate really centers around one issue and that is at which point does a life become a human life. i dont really believe most people are capable of terminating what they perceive to be human lives and i am sure we all have a similar moral code when it comes to this. so the debate is not whether its wrong or right to kill but rather when does a foetus become human. this is where it gets murky because religious people will tell you the child has a soul at conception, but non religious will use arguments about survival outside the womb etc. Unfortunately this is where it comes down to beliefs.

so to sum up. We're still at this point of the debate, with no sign of moving on.

[Karooryder]

If I am a bully, then what would you call someone advocating to take, possibly the biggest decision of someones life, away from them?

 

 

 

Since you are generalizing, how about a mediator. Humans are known to make bad decisions under stress… I mean suicide is a pretty big life decision where mediators have been known to intervene...

 

 

[Gen]

Are we going to argue semantics now? To the point of nitpicking what I said?

 

Does that in any way detract from the statement Christ Himself made when He told His disciples, BEFORE the event, when they were approximately 200-300 km away?

I am yes, because what you did was lie to make a moment appear different to was it was. For someone who has studied the bible for 5 years you sure did make a really bad mistake

 

And "predicting death by crucifixion" there was no predicting anything..the most common punishment for blasphemy was death..

 

Leviticus 24:13-16 Then the Lord said to Moses: “Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him.Say to the Israelites: ‘Anyone who curses their God will be held responsible; anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death.

 

 

He knew what he was doing was breaking the law and if arrested that he would be put to death, death sentence at that time was crucifixion.

[Andrew Steer]

Because, when He comes, every eye will see Him. Like lightning flashes in the east, and is seen in the west, so will His coming be. I don't need to go anywhere to see Him. ALL people will see Him, because He is Omnipresent.

 

Then why didn't he just do this the first time? 

[cvancoillie]

Been falling for Trump and the GOPs lies and propaganda?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/04/10/republicans-are-pushing-another-false-claim-about-abortion-rile-up-voters/?utm_term=.838451ca1324

 

http://time.com/5579685/trump-late-term-abortion-false-claims/

Lies? From your quoted links:

 

“Kathy Tran, a Democrat, was elected to the Virginia House of Delegates in 2017. She introduced HB 2491 earlier this year, and in a committee hearing on Monday, she was questioned about the bill by fellow delegate Todd Gilbert, a Republican.

“How late in the third trimester could a physician perform an abortion if he indicated it would impair the mental health of the woman?” Gilbert asked.

“Through the third trimester,” Tran responded. “The third trimester goes all the way up to 40 weeks.”

“Where it’s obvious that a woman is about to give birth,” Gilbert then asked, “would that still be a point at which she could request an abortion if she was so certified? She’s dilating.”

“My bill would allow that,” Tran said.”

 

And

 

“The bill began inspiring outcry among abortion opponents nationwide after its sponsor, Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, said in a committee hearing on Monday that it would technically allow abortion until the point of birth, if a doctor agreed it was necessary.

Gov. Northam, a Democrat, was asked about the bill in a radio interview on Wednesday, and his response only added to the controversy. Appearing to discuss what would happen if a child was born after a failed attempt at abortion, he said, “the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.””

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Really? You are going to go with that? I am supposed to provide the burden of proof, yet I am not allowed to reference the whole reason for this discussion, because YOU say that it is untrustworthy and falsified?

 

All I am hearing is that if I had to provide evidence to the contrary, you will readily reject it, since your mind is made up.

 

 

Lol. Present me with adequate evidence, and I will reconsider. The Bible cannot be used to prove its own veracity. Evidence doesn't work like that.

[Andrew Steer]

Since you are generalizing, how about a mediator. Humans are known to make bad decisions under stress… I mean suicide is a pretty big life decision where mediators have been known to intervene...

 

Why would you need a mediator if there is no choice to make...

 

For the umpteenth time, I don't care what choice you make, I don't care why you make it.

 

I care that you have that choice.

[Karooryder]

Why would you need a mediator if there is no choice to make...

 

For the umpteenth time, I don't care what choice you make, I don't care why you make it.

 

I care that you have that choice.

 

And our friend Robbie is of a different persuasion and opinion. We do have a choice to respect that.

[eddy]

Again, you are not answering the question.

 

If God is the Author, the Canon of the Bible is closed, and complete.

 

If man is the author, the Canon of the Bible is closed, and complete.

 

There is no third option?

 

WHAT SAY YOU?

 

 

I think that because of your strong faith in your creator you believe him to be infallible. That is your belief and I don't pass judgement.

 

However, no matter who wrote it, the Bible as we have it today has been carefully curated by powerful religious groups run by often evil, ambitious and ruthless godfearing people and I have NO faith that they were happy with wholsale torture, rape and pillage, murdering their closest companions, etc.  but drew the line at a bit of careful editing to further shore up their power.

[Skubarra]

Lies? From your quoted links:

 

“Kathy Tran, a Democrat, was elected to the Virginia House of Delegates in 2017. She introduced HB 2491 earlier this year, and in a committee hearing on Monday, she was questioned about the bill by fellow delegate Todd Gilbert, a Republican.

“How late in the third trimester could a physician perform an abortion if he indicated it would impair the mental health of the woman?” Gilbert asked.

“Through the third trimester,” Tran responded. “The third trimester goes all the way up to 40 weeks.”

“Where it’s obvious that a woman is about to give birth,” Gilbert then asked, “would that still be a point at which she could request an abortion if she was so certified? She’s dilating.”

“My bill would allow that,” Tran said.”

 

And

 

“The bill began inspiring outcry among abortion opponents nationwide after its sponsor, Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, said in a committee hearing on Monday that it would technically allow abortion until the point of birth, if a doctor agreed it was necessary.

Gov. Northam, a Democrat, was asked about the bill in a radio interview on Wednesday, and his response only added to the controversy. Appearing to discuss what would happen if a child was born after a failed attempt at abortion, he said, “the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.””

Nice strawman argument you got going there. You know full well that such extreme cases goes way beyond what 99.9% of people including pro-choicers would consider rational. Most likely statements of those politicians are taken out of context, and even if not it would not be widely supported.

[Gen]

Then why didn't he just do this the first time?

Dramatic effect maybe.

[Odinson]

Dramatic effect maybe.

 

Jesus be like

 

Everyone else be like: 

[Piston ZA]

Lies? From your quoted links:

 

“Kathy Tran, a Democrat, was elected to the Virginia House of Delegates in 2017. She introduced HB 2491 earlier this year, and in a committee hearing on Monday, she was questioned about the bill by fellow delegate Todd Gilbert, a Republican.

“How late in the third trimester could a physician perform an abortion if he indicated it would impair the mental health of the woman?” Gilbert asked.

“Through the third trimester,” Tran responded. “The third trimester goes all the way up to 40 weeks.”

“Where it’s obvious that a woman is about to give birth,” Gilbert then asked, “would that still be a point at which she could request an abortion if she was so certified? She’s dilating.”

“My bill would allow that,” Tran said.”

 

And

 

“The bill began inspiring outcry among abortion opponents nationwide after its sponsor, Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, said in a committee hearing on Monday that it would technically allow abortion until the point of birth, if a doctor agreed it was necessary.

Gov. Northam, a Democrat, was asked about the bill in a radio interview on Wednesday, and his response only added to the controversy. Appearing to discuss what would happen if a child was born after a failed attempt at abortion, he said, “the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.””

Yes, lies - Northam cocked up his response, but is not what the Dems stand for.

 

Part of the reason Republicans have been able to make some headway with this line of attack is that Ralph Northam, Virginia’s Democratic governor, garbled his response to a similar bill proposed in his state in January, misspeaking in a way that appeared to endorse afterbirth abortion and sparking a national firestorm. Soon afterward, New York enacted a bill that would allow abortions after 24 weeks in the absence of fetal viability, or to protect the mother’s life or health. Conservatives spun the two events as evidence that Democrats support infanticide — a massive distortion of the party’s position.

 

With regards to Tran's comments -

An attempted abortion late enough into a pregnancy to result in a live birthis extremely rare and happens only when the mother’s life is at risk or the fetus has a fatal condition.

[cvancoillie]

Nice strawman argument you got going there. You know full well that such extreme cases goes way beyond what 99.9% of people including pro-choicers would consider rational. Most likely statements of those politicians are taken out of context, and even if not it would not be widely supported.

Exactly the point. Why call yourself "pro-choice" if that includes even only 0.1% of people who think like that? I believe most people are actually "pro-life" but have their own idea of when "life" begins. I am curious to know what those are.