EWS 2019

[Duane_Bosch]

 Enduro guys are caught and it's all 'ah, that sucks, must be a reason bla bla bla' but when a roadie is caught everyone crucifies them.

 

EXAAAAACTLY.

 

I prefer my approach. I simply assume that everyone doing any sport for a living is using a heavily augmented (drugs) nutritional program. So WHEN they get bust I'm not dissapointed.

[Capricorn]

Sounds like a dick move, but there's a potential gap here: the race doctors did not know, nor could confirm that probenecid was on the prescribed list, allegedly because of a lack of comms (how then did the race staff communicate with each other and how would they communicate for external medical support?). In that case, why not immediate apply for a TUE to cover the rider knowing the rules are punitive?

 

There's some info, but not all the info, i admit. But i suspect there's some info not stated, but just enough to generate more disdain for the UCI.

The real dick move is everyone having to swallow that oh-so-shady excuse put forth by that Rude doper - drank from some unnamed riders bottle. Totally not his fault.

Legit.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Sounds like a dick move, but there's a potential gap here: the race doctors did not know, nor could confirm that probenecid was on the prescribed list, allegedly because of a lack of comms (how then did the race staff communicate with each other and how would they communicate for external medical support?). In that case, why not immediate apply for a TUE to cover the rider knowing the rules are punitive?

 

There's some info, but not all the info, i admit. But i suspect there's some info not stated, but just enough to generate more disdain for the UCI.

The real dick move is everyone having to swallow that oh-so-shady excuse put forth by that Rude doper - drank from some unnamed riders bottle. Totally not his fault.

Legit.

The some unnamed rider is apparently Jared Graves. 

[Odinson]

Ag, my issue is just the huge difference in reaction when some guys get bust vs others. Enduro guys are caught and it's all 'ah, that sucks, must be a reason bla bla bla' but when a roadie is caught everyone crucifies them.

 

He took drugs on the naughty list and competed while on them. Caught. 

 

Yes you're trying to win a world series, but if you are injured and can't get ready to compete within the rules of said series, unfortunately you miss out.

 

Can't agree (completely). 

 

Contrast the Rude vs Maes case. Night and day. Rude drank from mystery rider's 'juiced' bottle and plays coy and the MTB community calls him out on his ****. Maes' doctor does what is necessary to treat an infection and there's transparency. Unsurprisingly, the MTB community seems to be a bit more understanding. 

 

The only aspect I can understand is that perhaps there should've been a more thorough attempt to establish whether the treatment is on the banned substances list .

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Ag, my issue is just the huge difference in reaction when some guys get bust vs others. Enduro guys are caught and it's all 'ah, that sucks, must be a reason bla bla bla' but when a roadie is caught everyone crucifies them.

 

He took drugs on the naughty list and competed while on them. Caught. 

 

Yes you're trying to win a world series, but if you are injured and can't get ready to compete within the rules of said series, unfortunately you miss out.

Hmmmm... just thinking out loud here (or on type, whatever) but is that not indicative of the fan base itself? Having said that, PB is full of people crucifying Rude, telling Graves (who also got caught out at the same time) to heal up and get back on it, and sympathising with Maes in this instance. 

[Odinson]

The some unnamed rider is apparently Jared Graves. 

 

Seems that's the case.

 

It's telling how his fellow racers all publicly lapped up his BS 'comeback' statement (whether they believed it or not is irrelevant, they made a public display of solidarity with a busted doper), but most other folks aren't having it. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

EXAAAAACTLY.

 

I prefer my approach. I simply assume that everyone doing any sport for a living is using a heavily augmented (drugs) nutritional program. So WHEN they get bust I'm not dissapointed.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure most of em are on something, even if it's just a pre-workout to get the blood pumping faster. With the dwelms and Enduro and many other sports, the guys still have to put in the hard work to get where they are. Yeah, it's easier to operate at those higher exertions for longer periods of time when on some of em (and Maes's dominance over the first few events could be a sign of better dwugs) but if I take what a top level guy is taking now, there's no way in hell I'll automatically get to even have 10% of their talent / speed / capacity. 

 

PS: Yes, I know you know this, D. Where do you think it stops? I don't think the Enduro bois get anywhere near the same med support as the pro level road tour riders & teams do... 

[Jewbacca]

Can't agree (completely). 

 

Contrast the Rude vs Maes case. Night and day. Rude drank from mystery rider's 'juiced' bottle and plays coy and the MTB community calls him out on his ****. Maes' doctor does what is necessary to treat an infection and there's transparency. Unsurprisingly, the MTB community seems to be a bit more understanding. 

 

The only aspect I can understand is that perhaps there should've been a more thorough attempt to establish whether the treatment is on the banned substances list .

But if you are sick/injured/ill and you need meds to get fit enough to compete, as a TOP pro, you check that what you take is not naughty.

 

IF you are forced to take naughty drugs, you either apply for the TUE before, then compete when it is granted or you DON'T compete?

 

Surely? Again, guys trying to find a 'technicality' or a reason, but honestly, to be in this position in the first place is just not acceptable. From the doctors, him et al.

 

He cheated by contravening the rules and still competing. He got caught. For me it is pretty cut and dry. 

[Odinson]

EWS have had the 'benefit', depending on your ethical inclinations, of not having to be subjected to doping controls since day one up until last year. You can bet your bottom dollar some okes were getting juiced. 

 

However, to claim that these riders have access to what pro road teams do, is naive. 

 

Maes also tested clean at Madeira. So he obviously wasn't taking the substance as a masking agent. 

[Odinson]

But if you are sick/injured/ill and you need meds to get fit enough to compete, as a TOP pro, you check that what you take is not naughty.

 

IF you are forced to take naughty drugs, you either apply for the TUE before, then compete when it is granted or you DON'T compete?

 

Surely? Again, guys trying to find a 'technicality' or a reason, but honestly, to be in this position in the first place is just not acceptable. From the doctors, him et al.

 

He cheated by contravening the rules and still competing. He got caught. For me it is pretty cut and dry. 

 

I'll admit, the timeline isn't detailed in the statement, but it seems to be the case that the substance was only prescribed after the initial antibiotics failed and it was either using the substance or be hospitalized. Thus, a preemptive TUE wasn't on the cards, I believe. GT/MM also don't say exactly when they applied for the TUE, but I believe it was after the failed doping tests were announced. 

[DieselnDust]

Can't agree (completely). 

 

Contrast the Rude vs Maes case. Night and day. Rude drank from mystery rider's 'juiced' bottle and plays coy and the MTB community calls him out on his ****. Maes' doctor does what is necessary to treat an infection and there's transparency. Unsurprisingly, the MTB community seems to be a bit more understanding. 

 

The only aspect I can understand is that perhaps there should've been a more thorough attempt to establish whether the treatment is on the banned substances list .

 

 

 

Yes and no. At some point the UCI has to accept that the doctors decision on treatment for the rider is the last call and therefore this should be taken into account. this is the UCI arguing with itself and the riding paying the price.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Yes and no. At some point the UCI has to accept that the doctors decision on treatment for the rider is the last call and therefore this should be taken into account. this is the UCI arguing with itself and the riding paying the price.

100% agreed. 

[Odinson]

Yes and no. At some point the UCI has to accept that the doctors decision on treatment for the rider is the last call and therefore this should be taken into account. this is the UCI arguing with itself and the riding paying the price.

 

Seems that way. 

 

It's also important to keep in mind that this did not happen during an EWS, but during a local NZ enduro that was being used by Maes as a warm up for Rotorua. So, perhaps, the race doctor that was treating Maes was not as clued up on banned substances as those attending the EWS races. 

 

This is pure conjecture/speculation on my part. 

[anybody seen george?]

GT/MM also don't say exactly when they applied for the TUE, but I believe it was after the failed doping tests were announced. 

I assume they only applied after the test returned positive. I think had they applied immediately it would have been granted to him and we'd not be having this conversation.

[Jewbacca]

I'll admit, the timeline isn't detailed in the statement, but it seems to be the case that the substance was only prescribed after the initial antibiotics failed and it was either using the substance or be hospitalized. Thus, a preemptive TUE wasn't on the cards, I believe. GT/MM also don't say exactly when they applied for the TUE, but I believe it was after the failed doping tests were announced. 

So he needed naughty drugs to get up to speed faster so he could compete?

 

His choice was miss the event/events until better or risk competing having taken something he shouldn't have.

 

The fact that Tues were applied for means they knew he had taken something banned or they were caught and then applied.

 

Either way, without help he wouldn't have been able to race. Shane Warne served 2 years for being caught trying to speed up his recovery from a shoulder operation. 

 

Guilty. Burn him

[DieselnDust]

So he needed naughty drugs to get up to speed faster so he could compete?

 

His choice was miss the event/events until better or risk competing having taken something he shouldn't have.

 

The fact that Tues were applied for means they knew he had taken something banned or they were caught and then applied.

 

Either way, without help he wouldn't have been able to race. Shane Warne served 2 years for being caught trying to speed up his recovery from a shoulder operation. 

 

Guilty. Burn him

 

 

Er no lets take a few steps back. they applied for the TUE AFTER the doc had the followup check up ton the healing process. They then opted for the course of Probenicid and applied for the TUE when they could not establish if it was banned or not.