Sram Level Ultimate vs Shimano XTR

[MudLark]

Did you change the rotors?

The bike was a brand new bike. It squealed from the day I bought it until, about four months later, totally fed up, I changed everything, including the rotors, to Shimano. No regrets at all. Money well spent. And I sold the TLM bits for a reasonable price - so the swap actually cost me very little in the end.

[DieselnDust]

The bike was a brand new bike. It squealed from the day I bought it until, about four months later, totally fed up, I changed everything, including the rotors, to Shimano. No regrets at all. Money well spent. And I sold the TLM bits for a reasonable price - so the swap actually cost me very little in the end.

Its not uncommon for the brakes on brand new bikes to get contaminated in the shop. Many mechanics don't go and wash their hands thoroughly before starting to assemble your new bike. They'll touch everywhere on the bike as they're working including the disc brake rotors. How often do you see latex gloves in use in a LBS workshop?

Glad the component swap out worked for you. I thinks got little to do with the brand of components but rather that whoever fitted the parts took more care to not contaminate the parts. 

 

I always don a fresh pair of gloves before working on the bike. Keeps the oil from my skin and grease from previous job away from sensitive bike parts

[arendoog]

I have both on different bikes that i ride regularly .I also weigh 100kg .Sram level probably has better modulation .I have had issues with my xtr tubing that cracked .Sram gave me new levers after a warrenty .XTR is lighter and is more for the pro,s ,but they got me through the epic this year .Get the best deal ?

[love2fly]

I ride Sram Level TL. Before I had Avid Elixir and before that Shimano of unknown name ie VERY entry level.

The Shiman were way better. The Srams are squishy and now and then on very steep stuff I must use 2 fingers...The Shimano? Even on a Table Mountain trails helter skelter descent I should have walked I used just one. When I get the cash I'm buying Shimano.

Stay away!

I currently ride the Sram Level Ultimates, was riding XTR before.

XTR was hands down the better of the two.

I find the Srams squishy and inconsistent even after serving and being checked by the bike mechanics at multiple shops.

I have never had a good experience with any Sram brakes.

Next upgrade for me is brakes back to the XTR.

[love2fly]

Organic have A very sharp bite but have the shortest working life.

 

Metal pads don't have A very hard initial bite, they will squell if you don't get heat into them (they're labeled as A racing pad exclusively) but they will last very long

 

Carbo-metallic is a compromise between the above mentioned and it's the one we generally recommend for SA riders

I only ride metallic and have only hard (short) squeal only after going through water. And those that say they eat rotors, nope, 4500km on a set of rotors and I weight 107kg.

[DieselnDust]

And you have a vested interest in Braking as a brand

[Mohs]

Had both...Liked the XTR more...but, went against all, and got me a set of MT7 Pro Magura.

Hands down the best set I have ever owned. Don't take me wrong, to center 8 individual pads is not easy, but when you do, they are really that good.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Mohs

[MudLark]

The Srams are squishy and now and then on very steep stuff I must use 2 fingers...The Shimano? Even on a Table Mountain trails helter skelter descent I should have walked I used just one. 

 

Accurately reflects my experience too. 

[MudLark]

Its not uncommon for the brakes on brand new bikes to get contaminated in the shop. Many mechanics don't go and wash their hands thoroughly before starting to assemble your new bike. They'll touch everywhere on the bike as they're working including the disc brake rotors. How often do you see latex gloves in use in a LBS workshop?

Glad the component swap out worked for you. I thinks got little to do with the brand of components but rather that whoever fitted the parts took more care to not contaminate the parts. 

 

I always don a fresh pair of gloves before working on the bike. Keeps the oil from my skin and grease from previous job away from sensitive bike parts

 

Could be. But after 4 months or so (might have been a bit more) of heavy use, including in grinding mud and a new set of pads, one would imagine that any oil contamination was long gone. I did note that there were quite a lot of concerns raised in various corners of the web about the SRAMs squealing. But maybe its a matter of you find what you look for. But I really wasn't crazy about their modulation anyway. Or the the crazy price of their pads. The only advantage that the SRAMs had for me was that they were a fair lighter than the XTs I fitted.

Edited December 1, 2019 by MudLark

[Monark]

I'm with Mudlark, had nothing to do with the people working on the bikes. I am beginning to think that SRAM use Joe Public for R&D. My new set of Ultimates (warranty claim as the last ones failed) look and feel different. I guess time will tell whether the pistons will stick again. If they do I'll just keep on leaning on the warranty.

[Headshot]

As Droo said early on, brake affiliation usually comes from early experiences and we develop a loyalty based on what we feel familiar with. I started out with Shimano and they were pretty awful - think 2005 XT dual control. Then SLX 2013. The latter are still going great - true, one lever is a bit notchy and they need a top up every now and then, but I can't really complain. The things have massive stopping power and you learn to deal with the lack of modulation easily. I swop between these and Guide R's on my enduro bike.

 

Initially I hated the Guides because of the apparent lack of power. I loved the modulation but I missed that feeling of throwing out the anchor when trying to slow down from 50km/h on a loose jeep track descent. These days I quite like the Guides and I doubt they are holding me back at all. That said, this could be just because I've got used to less power and ride slower into corners, or brake earlier. Only way to test this would be to fit some more powerful brakes eg Codes or maybe XT 4 pistons and see if there is a difference in my strava times. 

 

One thing that I don't like with the Guides is the tendency for one lever to  start binding in the heat. It doesn't lead to brake drag but you suddenly realise how much you rely on sensing the lever position to judge how hard you're braking. Its a known fault but its just not serious enough for me to take it in for a replacement or repair. I also hate DOT brake fluid. 

 

The biggest issue for me is that of $$. It seems to me that powerful shimano brakes can be had for a fraction of the cost. Guides are at least if not more expensive than SLX but not as powerful. Codes are very expensive and you can probably get XT 4 pistons for less. If my Guides 4 piston brakes are as weak as they are, I can only imagine how awful the Level dual piston brakes must be...

[Koos Likkewaan 2]

On 10/9/2019 at 6:43 PM, DieselnDust said:

Squishy? SRAM isn't squishy. What you feel is lever flex as you apply more pressure. You would be well over the bars if you pulled the brake lever that hard out on the trail.

Shimano doesn't produce as much pressure and it's peak pressure comes in almost immediately before it falls away.

 

SRAM unreliable? Yikes is avid juicy issues from 12 years ago still the reference point? I've had plenty SRAM brakes and all worked reliably and delivered a lot of braking power. Seal rollback issues are caused by people using brake cleaner in a Dot system. Seal swell results. It's a user induced problem.

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but found this interesting.

I had my Level ULT's serviced/bled at a reputable LBS just before R2TS. Rear were fading before so I though good idea to get it done by the experts. Brakes worked beautifully afterwards.

Come R2TS... I have not touched the rear brake for 80km's. At the halfway point I pull both levers when I stopped. This is where the problem start. Rear binding, lever very spongy till about halfway. Tried cooling it done. Nothing. Rode like that for another 20km's before it came loose again.

Everyone seems to suggest "swollen seals". Not sure if it is in the lever or caliper.

This comment seems to suggest I caused it. Please let me know what I should do to avoid this from happening again.

  

[ajnkzn]

My new bike has Level ULT Stealth 4 piston brakes with 180mm front and 160mm rear, new SRAM centreline rotors.

 

They suck.

 

Have been bled, new pads etc etc and they are mushy and need a hard squeeze to lock up.

 

Compared to the G2 RE I have on my trail bike (also 4 piston with 180 / 160mm rotors) they aren't even close to as good.

 

My bike shop knows what they're doing so I doubt there's a user / service error issue.- I have heard that the new Level ULT's aren't great - would be good to hear from others if theirs are better?

[droo]

39 minutes ago, Koos Likkewaan 2 said:

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but found this interesting.

I had my Level ULT's serviced/bled at a reputable LBS just before R2TS. Rear were fading before so I though good idea to get it done by the experts. Brakes worked beautifully afterwards.

Come R2TS... I have not touched the rear brake for 80km's. At the halfway point I pull both levers when I stopped. This is where the problem start. Rear binding, lever very spongy till about halfway. Tried cooling it done. Nothing. Rode like that for another 20km's before it came loose again.

Everyone seems to suggest "swollen seals". Not sure if it is in the lever or caliper.

This comment seems to suggest I caused it. Please let me know what I should do to avoid this from happening again.

  

Lever rebuild time. Could be a number of reasons for it, but in my experience it's mostly just not bleeding them often enough, and even if you do it'll still need new pistons eventually.

At least with the SRAM levers you can get spares. Shimano you'll be replacing the whole lever.

[droo]

10 minutes ago, BaGearA said:

Very limited experience but I found them super powerful. try new pads and rotors or just different ones to rule out any contaminants 

I've had mixed experiences with the Levels. Some sets are great, some are pants. Still haven't figured out why.

[DieselnDust]

44 minutes ago, Koos Likkewaan 2 said:

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but found this interesting.

I had my Level ULT's serviced/bled at a reputable LBS just before R2TS. Rear were fading before so I though good idea to get it done by the experts. Brakes worked beautifully afterwards.

Come R2TS... I have not touched the rear brake for 80km's. At the halfway point I pull both levers when I stopped. This is where the problem start. Rear binding, lever very spongy till about halfway. Tried cooling it done. Nothing. Rode like that for another 20km's before it came loose again.

Everyone seems to suggest "swollen seals". Not sure if it is in the lever or caliper.

This comment seems to suggest I caused it. Please let me know what I should do to avoid this from happening again.

  

This does seem like a seal problem in the master cyclinder. The calipers don’t really have any issues, it’s most often in the MS. How old are the brakes and what was the conditions like for R2TS?

have the brakes returned to normal function since?

Edited May 22, 2024 by DieselnDust