Perceived effort vs Power based cyling

[ricgerard]

Hi All

I have been doing a lot of my riding indoors on the trainer according to a power based training program. Went for a ride yesterday and today without any power data.
What tips do you guys/gals have when cycling outdoors and only going on perceived effort? This morning I found I would tend to overshoot my abilities and tire quite quickly.
Hopefully I can save up for a power meter soon.

Thanks in advance

[Butterbean]

Ypu could use a heart rate monitor as a stop gap until you get a PM. 

 

Heart rate will usually correlate to power oj most days, but affected by factors like sleep, recovery, and caffeine and medication can affect it. Its still a good enough indicator. 

Do an ID session, and note rhe heartrate zones you're in while in various power zones. On the road, you use this as a guide. Power meters measure immediately, but HR monitors will take a few seconds to catch up to the effort, so get used to this too. 

[DieselnDust]

RPE based training is quite tricky but also quite simple. Its obviously more qualitative than quantitative.

Familiarise yourself with the RPE scale of effort

Then use a 80 /20 rule foryour efforts. 80% of your training time should be in the 3-7 scale with 20% of your time in the 8-10 scale

[dasilvarsa]

If you have a Garmin with HRM

Stay in Zone 3 and 4 70% to 90% of Max

[Mountain Bru]

39 minutes ago, ricgerard said:

Hi All

I have been doing a lot of my riding indoors on the trainer according to a power based training program. Went for a ride yesterday and today without any power data.
What tips do you guys/gals have when cycling outdoors and only going on perceived effort? This morning I found I would tend to overshoot my abilities and tire quite quickly.
Hopefully I can save up for a power meter soon.

Thanks in advance

As Butterbean said, HR is a "cheap" option for pacing, and even if you do get a power meter at some point, it'll still be useful to have HR data. 

You basically have 2 "systems" that you're using when you ride - your cardiovascular system (and lungs), and your muscular system. A power meter measures what your muscles are doing in terms of power, while a HR monitor measures what your cardiovascular system is doing. Both need training though. Doesn't help you can hit massive power numbers but are cooked after 5km, and doesn't help if you can ride for hours, but only really slowly at really low power.  

So my advice would be to train your muscular system on the trainer so you can do proper intervals at target watts, and to train your cardio system outdoors with a HR monitor. For me, that would mean long rides at say 150bpm or 180 minus your age (regardless of power). The idea is that you do 80% of your training at this low intensity, and 20% at high intensity (intervals), and avoid doing anything at "medium intensity" cos that'll add fatigue to your legs without a proportional performance benefit.

You can read up about this kind of training here: https://philmaffetone.com/ 

[Mountain Bru]

Just now, Mountain Bru said:

As Butterbean said, HR is a "cheap" option for pacing, and even if you do get a power meter at some point, it'll still be useful to have HR data. 

You basically have 2 "systems" that you're using when you ride - your cardiovascular system (and lungs), and your muscular system. A power meter measures what your muscles are doing in terms of power, while a HR monitor measures what your cardiovascular system is doing. Both need training though. Doesn't help you can hit massive power numbers but are cooked after 5km, and doesn't help if you can ride for hours, but only really slowly at really low power.  

So my advice would be to train your muscular system on the trainer so you can do proper intervals at target watts, and to train your cardio system outdoors with a HR monitor. For me, that would mean long rides at say 150bpm or 180 minus your age (regardless of power). The idea is that you do 80% of your training at this low intensity, and 20% at high intensity (intervals), and avoid doing anything at "medium intensity" cos that'll add fatigue to your legs without a proportional performance benefit.

You can read up about this kind of training here: https://philmaffetone.com/ 

This is all about training though. In terms of actually pacing a "non training" ride, a HR monitor will give you some sense of your effort level. And it might be useful to intentionally not look at your power numbers on the trainer, and then try guess what power you're doing, and then check and see how close you are until you get a good feel for what your different power zones feel like (even if the specific watt value isn't 100% correct.)  

[Frosty]

A podcast I listened to, last year sometime, the guy referred to three zones to keep things simple.

1 - easy. You can talk normally. Your “I can ride all day” pace.

 

2 - medium. You are working, but can talk with some gasping for a breath. This should be your 5m, 20 and 1h (FTP) pace and fits in to the RPE zones 4 - 7 depending on how long you hold the effort. Example: I think Joe Friel said 7 is equivalent to 100% of FTP. Will check to see if I can find the page.

 

3 - hard. All out efforts where you can’t talk, because you’re trying to suck in oxygen/air. Max efforts similar to Anaerobic Capacity and Neuromuscular Sprints. 5s, 30s, 1m and 3m efforts.

 

[ricgerard]

Thanks for all the advice so far. Once my heart rate monitor arrives I'll try and use heart rate zones in my rides. I'm still relatively new to using data as part of my training but ftp based has been relatively easy to get used to. I hope it will be the same for heart rate training.

[RobertWhitehead]

Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth: if you train mostly indoors and get outside and tire quite quickly then I will re-look your indoor regime. 

Indoor training is a great tool to get you stronger and fitter without having to go through the mission of logging hours upon hours on the bike. Are you using a training platform on a "smart trainer" or what type of indoor trainer do you have? 

[ricgerard]

39 minutes ago, RobertWhitehead said:

Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth: if you train mostly indoors and get outside and tire quite quickly then I will re-look your indoor regime. 

Indoor training is a great tool to get you stronger and fitter without having to go through the mission of logging hours upon hours on the bike. Are you using a training platform on a "smart trainer" or what type of indoor trainer do you have? 

I use a smart trainer. Did an ftp test and then followed a suggested workout program that garmin gave based on my ftp test. 

 

[shaper]

Train by power on the trainer during the week, just ride at the weekend building base, distance, endurance and time in the saddle. Sounds like you do not have enough base. Easy enough to train 1hr sessions, but if you do not have a base endurance for longer riding outside your time to exhaustion will be quick and is perhaps why you tire quickly.

[ricgerard]

20 hours ago, shaper said:

Train by power on the trainer during the week, just ride at the weekend building base, distance, endurance and time in the saddle. Sounds like you do not have enough base. Easy enough to train 1hr sessions, but if you do not have a base endurance for longer riding outside your time to exhaustion will be quick and is perhaps why you tire quickly.

Thanks. Will definitely try to get more time in the saddle over weekends