Trail MTBs - 7 years later...What has changed?

[Steady Spin]

1 hour ago, VT-2 said:

I hear you and is more or less on the same page. But, I want to hear from those that did change to the slacker, new geo and longer travel newer trail bikes if that made any difference to their riding at say a Wolwespruit. (I have done all the black lines with my bike and don't just slowly roll every jump although I by no means is Greg Minaaring down them either or have any great desire at 40+ years)

Does it count that I switched from a 2012 Morewood to a 2018 Evil in 2020? 

[Kuys]

Ive ridden the following bikes since 2006/7

 

2006 Stumpjumper FSR (26")

2008 Stumpjumper FSR (26" with brain rear shock)

2010 Pivot Mach 5 (looking back, one of the best bikes Ive owned)

2011 Trek Fuel EX (over forked it to 150mm fork, which in hindsight wasnt the best idea)

2012 SC Tallboy LTc (large with 70mm stem), my first 29er, had Enve wheels etc so was a major jump from the Trek

2014 SC Tallboy LTc (Xlarge with 50mm stem) the longer top tube made it more comfortable, but I wasnt any faster on it

2016 Stumpjumper S-works (XL with 45mm stem). Was really good bike in 140 fr/ 135 rr mode. I changed the fork later to 160 which in hindsight probably took some character away from the bike. 

demo: 2017 SC Nomad (XL, with 29er front with EXT rear shock) damn this was an amazing bike. 

2018 Pyga Slakline, L. Main reason was the Stumpy felt a bit out of depth at Hakahana, and then when I bought the Slakline it closed down, so never really got the opportunity to ride it there. I rode the Slakline with both 140 and 160 rear, but it always felt like it couldnt really stretch its legs at a place like Wolwe. 

But anyway: Geometry (slacker head angles and steeper seat tube angles really makes a positive difference. Suspension made leaps and bounds until about 2019/2020 then tapered off a bit. My 2019 Lyrik still feels amazing. 

Frames are also noticeable stiffer/stronger these days. 

The one thing that is a thing for me is that we are riding much heavier wheels and tyre combo's these days than 7yrs ago. The bikes go so much faster, that you need strong tyres and wheels, and that makes the bikes feel slower on flats and climbs. 

12 speed? Dont disgard Shimano Deore 10 spd (with 11-46 casette, you really dont loose out much to 12 spd, for a fraction of the cost. Im stringly considering dishing my 12spd for the 10 spd Deore. 

If you want to upgrade? get a 2nd hand Pike and switch to 10 spd Deore. Otherwise sell it and get something newer. 

Thats my 2 cents. 

 

 

 

 

[PhilipV]

I can give you an honest, relevant opinion. 

I rode a Trance 2  27.5 for 5 years. 

I loved it. I rode it hard. I rode it far. That bile was FUN in capital letters. It was very capable. I rode it on all the scary trails I could find on it in the Western Cape. On most rides I got it to 9/10 ITO of what the bike could handle. And every now and then I gave it the beans and forced it to go all in. 

Over the years I replaced the brakes, wheels, drivetrain, seatpost, saddle, stem, handlebar, fork and frame. The original back shock and crank never broke. Ended up up as 1x11 with a 150/160 Pike and 30mm rim wheels. 3 major upgrades that each makes a hellova difference for the better.

And then on the last ride of 2020 an unforeseen incident with an unwelcome rock put a big dent in the downtube and I called a day on it. 

I replaced it with a Scott Genius 950, because that was the only trail bike available in XL,with similar spec to what I was on. 

As a die-hard 27.5 hold out, I've since eaten humble pie. The Genius is a generation jump from the Trance 27.5. 

It fits me better (I'm 1.87,) is even more fun, more composed and more capable. My Aha! moment was on the first ride att Helderberg where I slammed into a corner without braking where I was always tapping off on the Trance. Where I'd be at 9/10 on the Trance, the new bike felt like it was at 7/10. It took me a while to recalibrate my risk/reward to the more capable bike. 

The main difference is that the Trance was easier to move around underneath me, with the Genius (being longer, and with longer wheelbase) requiring more body language to move around, but trading it for being more stable at speed. 

And while the Genius will behave like a street fighter in a dodgy neighborhood, I have no qualms with taking it on longer rides as well. Im busy planning two massive projects on the Genius. A Bikepacking trip, and a Jonkershoek EDM (Elke Donnerse Meter van singletrack) ride. 

So you can replace the fork (150mm is Trance's sweet spot,) drivetrain and wheels, and you'll have even more fun on it. I know, because I've done it, 

But there is not a single situation where I will choose my old Trance over my new bike. 

[PhilipV]

1 hour ago, VT-2 said:

A couple of people have suggested a fork upgrade. The fork never got good reviews back in the day and was first on most lists for upgrading.

What do I need to know when upgrading and what is typically available in RSA? I assume 2nd hand makes most sense? Back in the day many on the interwebs preferred a RS Pike Solo 150mm if I recall...

(I assume it has to be a 27.5 fork around 140mm to 160mm and probably a 34-36 - again the 32 was a criticism on the bike - and the offset doesn't matter that much but ideal if can match?)

if you change the fork, the ideal is a Fox 34 or RS Pike at 150mm in 27.5. 

A Revelation RC with a Charger damper is also a great alternative. I went from a well sorted Pike to Rev RC and it's perfect. 

 

Bear in mind that you've got non-boost wheels, if you get a Boost fork you'll need boost adapters, a new hub or new wheels. 

[VT-2]

48 minutes ago, Kuys said:

Ive ridden the following bikes since 2006/7

 

2006 Stumpjumper FSR (26")

2008 Stumpjumper FSR (26" with brain rear shock)

2010 Pivot Mach 5 (looking back, one of the best bikes Ive owned)

2011 Trek Fuel EX (over forked it to 150mm fork, which in hindsight wasnt the best idea)

2012 SC Tallboy LTc (large with 70mm stem), my first 29er, had Enve wheels etc so was a major jump from the Trek

2014 SC Tallboy LTc (Xlarge with 50mm stem) the longer top tube made it more comfortable, but I wasnt any faster on it

2016 Stumpjumper S-works (XL with 45mm stem). Was really good bike in 140 fr/ 135 rr mode. I changed the fork later to 160 which in hindsight probably took some character away from the bike. 

demo: 2017 SC Nomad (XL, with 29er front with EXT rear shock) damn this was an amazing bike. 

2018 Pyga Slakline, L. Main reason was the Stumpy felt a bit out of depth at Hakahana, and then when I bought the Slakline it closed down, so never really got the opportunity to ride it there. I rode the Slakline with both 140 and 160 rear, but it always felt like it couldnt really stretch its legs at a place like Wolwe. 

But anyway: Geometry (slacker head angles and steeper seat tube angles really makes a positive difference. Suspension made leaps and bounds until about 2019/2020 then tapered off a bit. My 2019 Lyrik still feels amazing. 

Frames are also noticeable stiffer/stronger these days. 

The one thing that is a thing for me is that we are riding much heavier wheels and tyre combo's these days than 7yrs ago. The bikes go so much faster, that you need strong tyres and wheels, and that makes the bikes feel slower on flats and climbs. 

12 speed? Dont disgard Shimano Deore 10 spd (with 11-46 casette, you really dont loose out much to 12 spd, for a fraction of the cost. Im stringly considering dishing my 12spd for the 10 spd Deore. 

If you want to upgrade? get a 2nd hand Pike and switch to 10 spd Deore. Otherwise sell it and get something newer. 

Thats my 2 cents. 

 

 

 

 

Cool, thanks for the in depth feedback.

 

I will go double check the setup on the current bike. Pretty sure it might be a 10 spd Deore 11-46 anyway - all I know when I did it was that the bike shop convinced me to change from the old setup and that is was possible without having to replace everything. 

 

I actually started out back in the day with a Giant VT-2 all-mountain bike when most people where still on hardtails and full-suspension just becoming more common. Didn't know any better and did marathon and half-marathon races with the bike and got some pretty damn good results considering. Then the pros were all still on hardtails and just starting to switch to full-suspension. When some friends started mountain biking it got more competitive and I wanted something more suitable for the race scene and got the Anthem X1 (all XT parts). It felt awesome and really worked for racing (always seeded group A-C at worse) but never felt very confident going downhill.

 

Got the Trance X 2 in 2015 and have never really worried about race performance (then raced less because friends moved / stopped mtb and was happy to just do it for fun). I actually also got it because then the whole enduro thing was becoming bigger and I wanted in after doing a Hakahana event on the Anthem and realising this is not the way to go...I have never been back to Enduro racing despite getting the Anthem since it never really seemed to fit Gauteng...

 

So, whilst I think it is fair to say I have never felt the Trance was too little bike for my bravery / riding style / technique and it was a massive improvement going downhill and I am very happy with its all round-performance - it always felt that it could be a bit more secure / stable going downhill. The fork despite not bottoming out never felt like it was really meant for this bike...

 

I guess what I am trying to say is I am not going to do enduro racing or approach say Wolwespruit like an Enduro rider - but I want to be able to have a rig / improvement that makes me fairly confident at the sort of aggressive trail riding end of the spectrum.  I mean I did all the black at Wolwespuit from the start (not that it is super technical and the current supertube runs can be done rolling to Greg Minaar balls to the wall style) on the Trance. Not sure if it means an upgrade, new bike or just some jump / drop-off / technical riding practice and classes...   

[VT-2]

1 hour ago, PhilipV said:

I can give you an honest, relevant opinion. 

I rode a Trance 2  27.5 for 5 years. 

I loved it. I rode it hard. I rode it far. That bile was FUN in capital letters. It was very capable. I rode it on all the scary trails I could find on it in the Western Cape. On most rides I got it to 9/10 ITO of what the bike could handle. And every now and then I gave it the beans and forced it to go all in. 

Over the years I replaced the brakes, wheels, drivetrain, seatpost, saddle, stem, handlebar, fork and frame. The original back shock and crank never broke. Ended up up as 1x11 with a 150/160 Pike and 30mm rim wheels. 3 major upgrades that each makes a hellova difference for the better.

And then on the last ride of 2020 an unforeseen incident with an unwelcome rock put a big dent in the downtube and I called a day on it. 

I replaced it with a Scott Genius 950, because that was the only trail bike available in XL,with similar spec to what I was on. 

As a die-hard 27.5 hold out, I've since eaten humble pie. The Genius is a generation jump from the Trance 27.5. 

It fits me better (I'm 1.87,) is even more fun, more composed and more capable. My Aha! moment was on the first ride att Helderberg where I slammed into a corner without braking where I was always tapping off on the Trance. Where I'd be at 9/10 on the Trance, the new bike felt like it was at 7/10. It took me a while to recalibrate my risk/reward to the more capable bike. 

The main difference is that the Trance was easier to move around underneath me, with the Genius (being longer, and with longer wheelbase) requiring more body language to move around, but trading it for being more stable at speed. 

And while the Genius will behave like a street fighter in a dodgy neighborhood, I have no qualms with taking it on longer rides as well. Im busy planning two massive projects on the Genius. A Bikepacking trip, and a Jonkershoek EDM (Elke Donnerse Meter van singletrack) ride. 

So you can replace the fork (150mm is Trance's sweet spot,) drivetrain and wheels, and you'll have even more fun on it. I know, because I've done it, 

But there is not a single situation where I will choose my old Trance over my new bike. 

Thanks this is really valuable and exactly what I was hoping to get.  Like someone suggested maybe I should just go demo a Trek at Wolwespuit or these modern trail bikes. But good to see that upgrades also really made a difference.  I am around 1.8 so not in the 1.87 camp where a 29er might be a more natural fit. I did Jonkershoek about two years ago again on the Trance and again like you said it was more than capable enough. I also just don't like the idea of a 29er and is very tempted to just not get it because they seem to be such a blunt way to compensate for skill and technical terrain - but then again I want to be more confident and like any sport why buckle at progression filtering down and making things easier...

 

So judging by your feedback even although the 27.5 was nimble and gave lekker feedback on the trail - the 29er was just as fun and have made you more confident going down technical stuff?

I can upgrade the Trance with say a Pike (5K or so for old one) and let say wheels and maybe drive train for let's say 15k. Or sell the bike - for what 10-15k? Then buy a 45k bike (SJ Alloy or Giant Trance) which will give me the better geometry and modern designs but as far as I can tell even worse compromise parts then the sort of stuff you used to get (the value for money proposition seemed to have really dropped in this regard from 7 years ago). But...all said probably a better ride? Or go up one level and get the Trance X and SJ Evo Alloy stuff at around 65K? The carbon stuff just seem like dirt bike prices (btw all three my dirt bikes where cheaper and that includes two KTMs and a Husqvarna) and for 100k you can get an e-bike.  

[VT-2]

2 hours ago, thebob said:

Get a ride on a Trek Fuel EX or new Top Fuel (Wolwespruit has demos) and decide for yourself. Comparing you bike to a current trail bike back to back will give you the answers you are looking for. Personally I wouldn't bother throwing money at an older bike. The bones are already outdated and hanging fancy new bits on it won't give you as much performance gain as the new school geometry.

If you ride a size M you can give my Pyga Hyrax a go at Wolwe this weekend. I'll be there on Saturday. Drop me a PM if you want to organise

I think something along these lines must be the next step. I will go try the Treks at Wolwe...Only way you will know for sure, but I have a feeling the immediate impressions might also override some logic.

[VT-2]

1 hour ago, PhilipV said:

if you change the fork, the ideal is a Fox 34 or RS Pike at 150mm in 27.5. 

A Revelation RC with a Charger damper is also a great alternative. I went from a well sorted Pike to Rev RC and it's perfect. 

 

Bear in mind that you've got non-boost wheels, if you get a Boost fork you'll need boost adapters, a new hub or new wheels. 

Cool - the boost forks are mostly all the new ones right? I don't know if a new fork is really worth it unless you can get it for under 10k...What is "boost" wheels? Those that allow bigger tyres? I talked to the mechanic at the LBS where I dropped the bike to fix two tyres about a potential upgrade of the rims enabling me to run fatter tyres - not sure what else that involves. (He suggested it could along with 1x12 be good upgrades).

[Kuys]

get a Pike and 30mm wide rims and go ride it till it dies!

You should be able to get a 27.5"  Pike for around R7k in good nick. 

You will need to sped upwards of R70k to get a new alloy frame bike with good suspension. 

[thebob]

22 minutes ago, VT-2 said:

I think something along these lines must be the next step. I will go try the Treks at Wolwe...Only way you will know for sure, but I have a feeling the immediate impressions might also override some logic.

Do a loop on your bike, then do the loop on a demo and then back on your bike. That should give you a very good idea of the differences

[Kuys]

19 minutes ago, VT-2 said:

Cool - the boost forks are mostly all the new ones right? I don't know if a new fork is really worth it unless you can get it for under 10k...What is "boost" wheels? Those that allow bigger tyres? I talked to the mechanic at the LBS where I dropped the bike to fix two tyres about a potential upgrade of the rims enabling me to run fatter tyres - not sure what else that involves. (He suggested it could along with 1x12 be good upgrades).

Boost refers to the front fork axle. Until around 2016/2017 fork thru axles were 100 mm long x 15 mm diameter. Since then it became 110 mm long x 15mm diam (called boost). Rear similarly went from 142 to 148. Some hubs can be adapated from 100 to 110mm with adaptors. 

Most rims these days are 30mm inner width, it suites 2.4-2.6 wide tyres better, allowing you to run lowing pressure without tyre folding in under you in hard cornering. 

If you keep to the existing spoke count, you should be able to replace rims only and keep hubs. But you will need new spokes and dont forget labour for wheel build is a few bucks. 

 

[Jewbacca]

Depending on how #enduro you want to go, I would buy one of these

 

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/570588/vitus-escarpe-vxr

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/560055/giant-trance-2-29er-m

 

 

[Super Sywurm]

19 hours ago, VT-2 said:

I realised my Giant Trance 2 27.5 (2015) is about seven years old. I have not really looked seriously at new bikes mostly because I ride on my own the trails around Pretoria (love Wolwespruit in particular) and don't do events. If there is one thing that have kept me from the temptation is has been the prices - but that is another story.

 

This is however the longest I have gone without a new bike. Whilst there is nothing in particular wrong with the Trance, I am looking again at the bike market. Apart from the absolute shock in terms of price and value for money (the components are average on 60k+ bikes) - I have also noticed there seem to be less choice with almost none of the brands you see in shootouts available in South Africa. Especially if you like trail bikes...But that is a whole discussion on its own...

 

I want to rather focus on what the new trail bikes can do compared to a 2015 Trance. Mine is still standard apart from the drive train which I changed two years ago to a single 10 speed. 

 

 

First, it seems most of the traill bikes are now 29ers. Second that you still basically get an average trail bike (130-140mm) and a more aggressive trail bike (close to enduro / all mountain 150mm-160mm machines) - but now also the so-called "down-country" bikes. I am only interested in the trail to more aggressive trail bikes. I see you also get "chips" and all sorts of settings that enable you to change the geometry on the trails. Anything I missed?

 

I want to know from trial riders or people that had a trail bike from say 2015-2018 and then replaced / added a more recent bike (2019-2022) like say a Giant Trance X or the Specialised SJ Evo (aggressive trail bikes). However, I would also like to hear from the people that stayed more or less in the 130-140mm range from 2019-2022 - it might be the equivalent of my bike then.

 

(1) How much have the bikes improved in technology and does it make a difference to you riding ability and technical progression compared to you older bike?

 

(2) Is it more fun? One criticism of all these new 29er trail bikes and especially the long travel bikes is that they are so forgiving and capable that they actually require bigger and more dangerous riding to stay fun. In other words the actual trial experience is soaked up in all the travel and tech. Also that people don't learn proper skills on them but I don't want to get into the philosophy and the pro / cons of this approach in the industry...Rather given the trails and activities in your area and what we typically find in South Africa are you having more fun? Progressing your skills? Why? 

 

(3) Personally I am not sure if it worth upgrading to a 29er between 120-140mm. I think it might be better to just upgrade my drive train (12 speed) and my wheels (bigger and better hubs for wider tyre coverage) and maybe call it a day. Ideally I would like to upgrade the fork but 2nd hand forks in RSA is a mission and often way overpriced. It is almost cheaper to just buy a 2nd hand 34 140mm-160mm bike than go shopping for such a fork. Now the Trance X type of bikes look like something that might be worth the upgrade...Opinions?

 

*Disclaimer 1: It seems like a horrible time to buy new now given the state of the industry, South African market and our economic prospects - but lets put that aside and say there is money for a new bike.

* Disclaimer 2: The obvious best way to know is to go ride a few bikes, do demo days (if you still get those) and / or make new mtb friends and borrow their bikes. But some desktop research will not hurt...

 

 

 

Click here and build your own bike:

 

https://www.rapide.co.za/product/rapide-tigre-29-ht/

[El Duderino]

19 hours ago, VT-2 said:

I realised my Giant Trance 2 27.5 (2015) is about seven years old. I have not really looked seriously at new bikes mostly because I ride on my own the trails around Pretoria (love Wolwespruit in particular) and don't do events. If there is one thing that have kept me from the temptation is has been the prices - but that is another story.

 

This is however the longest I have gone without a new bike. Whilst there is nothing in particular wrong with the Trance, I am looking again at the bike market. Apart from the absolute shock in terms of price and value for money (the components are average on 60k+ bikes) - I have also noticed there seem to be less choice with almost none of the brands you see in shootouts available in South Africa. Especially if you like trail bikes...But that is a whole discussion on its own...

 

I want to rather focus on what the new trail bikes can do compared to a 2015 Trance. Mine is still standard apart from the drive train which I changed two years ago to a single 10 speed. 

 

 

First, it seems most of the traill bikes are now 29ers. Second that you still basically get an average trail bike (130-140mm) and a more aggressive trail bike (close to enduro / all mountain 150mm-160mm machines) - but now also the so-called "down-country" bikes. I am only interested in the trail to more aggressive trail bikes. I see you also get "chips" and all sorts of settings that enable you to change the geometry on the trails. Anything I missed?

 

I want to know from trial riders or people that had a trail bike from say 2015-2018 and then replaced / added a more recent bike (2019-2022) like say a Giant Trance X or the Specialised SJ Evo (aggressive trail bikes). However, I would also like to hear from the people that stayed more or less in the 130-140mm range from 2019-2022 - it might be the equivalent of my bike then.

 

(1) How much have the bikes improved in technology and does it make a difference to you riding ability and technical progression compared to you older bike?

 

(2) Is it more fun? One criticism of all these new 29er trail bikes and especially the long travel bikes is that they are so forgiving and capable that they actually require bigger and more dangerous riding to stay fun. In other words the actual trial experience is soaked up in all the travel and tech. Also that people don't learn proper skills on them but I don't want to get into the philosophy and the pro / cons of this approach in the industry...Rather given the trails and activities in your area and what we typically find in South Africa are you having more fun? Progressing your skills? Why? 

 

(3) Personally I am not sure if it worth upgrading to a 29er between 120-140mm. I think it might be better to just upgrade my drive train (12 speed) and my wheels (bigger and better hubs for wider tyre coverage) and maybe call it a day. Ideally I would like to upgrade the fork but 2nd hand forks in RSA is a mission and often way overpriced. It is almost cheaper to just buy a 2nd hand 34 140mm-160mm bike than go shopping for such a fork. Now the Trance X type of bikes look like something that might be worth the upgrade...Opinions?

 

*Disclaimer 1: It seems like a horrible time to buy new now given the state of the industry, South African market and our economic prospects - but lets put that aside and say there is money for a new bike.

* Disclaimer 2: The obvious best way to know is to go ride a few bikes, do demo days (if you still get those) and / or make new mtb friends and borrow their bikes. But some desktop research will not hurt...

 

 

 

I was in a very similar situation to you. I own a 2015 Yeti SB5C trail bike with 27.5 wheels. I had the LR version where the fork was upgraded to the 160mm Fox 36. I still have the bike. It has 130mm travel at the rear. It was my do-it-all bike. I did Berg and Bush, "raced" (more fun than racing) enduro and rode everything on my local trails without issues. In 2019 I bought a short travel XC 29er to do long races. It was not very versatile and basically became a road bike that I occasionally used on long rides in sugar cane and easy trails. I mostly rode the Yeti. I sold the XC bike in early 2021.

That brings me to mid-2022, where I was still riding a seven year old 650B trail bike. I began contemplating a more modern bike. I wanted something that would be comfortable and fast on long rides to keep up with the XC bikes, as hitting the 50+years has made me re-think what I want out of riding MTBs. But, I also wanted a bike that I felt could be used on slightly rowdier terrain that my Yeti is comfortable on. I had considered the short travel Giant Trance 29er, which gets excellent reviews, but there is no stock. So, I ended up with a 120mm/120mm Trek Top Fuel, which to me is an XC bike. But, this thing is nothing like my previous XC bike. It has 30mm rims, a 66 degree head angle and a fork that can take a beating despite the short travel. It is extremely capable, and I imagine with a 130mm Pike or Fox 34, would be an excellent trail bike. It is an upgrade I am considering. Is it better than the Yeti on the rowdy stuff? Probably not...maybe with that 130mm fork it will be? But, it blows the Yeti away in terms of climbing, speed over the chattery, easy-tech and flow trails. It is fast...and a blast to ride. The Yeti is will be sold in the coming weeks. 

 

The point is, I think you will be surprised by how good a 29er is and that using technology to have a better ride is fine. If we didn't want our bikes to make things easier, we'd still be riding rigid bikes with road bike geometry like they did in the 70's in Marin County, California, where mountain biking was born. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by El Duderino
spelling

[Fred van Vlaanderen]

Just buy a Pyga. 

[VT-2]

2 hours ago, El Duderino said:

I was in a very similar situation to you. I own a 2015 Yeti SB5C trail bike with 27.5 wheels. I had the LR version where the fork was upgraded to the 160mm Fox 36. I still have the bike. It has 130mm travel at the rear. It was my do-it-all bike. I did Berg and Bush, "raced" (more fun than racing) enduro and rode everything on my local trails without issues. In 2019 I bought a short travel XC 29er to do long races. It was not very versatile and basically became a road bike that I occasionally used on long rides in sugar cane and easy trails. I mostly rode the Yeti. I sold the XC bike in early 2021.

That brings me to mid-2022, where I was still riding a seven year old 650B trail bike. I began contemplating a more modern bike. I wanted something that would be comfortable and fast on long rides to keep up with the XC bikes, as hitting the 50+years has made me re-think what I want out of riding MTBs. But, I also wanted a bike that I felt could be used on slightly rowdier terrain that my Yeti is comfortable on. I had considered the short travel Giant Trance 29er, which gets excellent reviews, but there is no stock. So, I ended up with a 120mm/120mm Trek Top Fuel, which to me is an XC bike. But, this thing is nothing like my previous XC bike. It has 30mm rims, a 66 degree head angle and a fork that can take a beating despite the short travel. It is extremely capable, and I imagine with a 130mm Pike or Fox 34, would be an excellent trail bike. It is an upgrade I am considering. Is it better than the Yeti on the rowdy stuff? Probably not...maybe with that 130mm fork it will be? But, it blows the Yeti away in terms of climbing, speed over the chattery, easy-tech and flow trails. It is fast...and a blast to ride. The Yeti is will be sold in the coming weeks. 

 

The point is, I think you will be surprised by how good a 29er is and that using technology to have a better ride is fine. If we didn't want our bikes to make things easier, we'd still be riding rigid bikes with road bike geometry like they did in the 70's in Marin County, California, where mountain biking was born. 

Another great reply - thank you! TheBob also recommended I check out the Trek's at Wolwespruit. I also thought clicking on the website that Top sound exactly like the new down-country craze and more towards the XC side on things. But, the reviews I glanced at (will go read in more detail) basically confirm what you said - very capable going down despite the short travel.

 

It would be nice if the shop there had a Top and the more mid travel Fuel. I get the impression from the Facebook / website that is is mostly demo Tops. But, I will go check with them one day in the week after work...

 

The riding I like is the sort of flowing stuff you find at Wolwespruit and trails that have berms, jumps, drops and other obstacles that is challenging but not straight down, table-top, gap clearing hospital stuff. I basically want to be able to just do that as confident as possible and push / progress to doing them proper justice.

 

So, maybe I don't need an Trance X of Specialised SJ Evo...I have not heard from these guys yet? Do they pedal like say my bike / 2015 trail bikes but with all the benefits of what you get with a longer travel trail bike in 2022?