2022 Virgin Active Ride Joburg

[DanMan]

1 minute ago, Ads said:

The timing companies surely works with CSA. All our info is available to them via our CSA license. Advertising do not need to be a problem. The old Nissan Trailseeker had a system you pay on line, fit your board and rocks up. No need to travel twice just to get a water bottle for frre. Us "plattelanders" wiil save alot and can use the savings on other races. 

 

Timing companies get appointed by race organizers. It is up to the organizer to sanction under CSA or not. The timing company does the timing regardless if event is sanctioned or not. 

In regard to the old Trail seekers the Timing was done by the organizers (Advendurance) themselves. Their boards and their seeding. I cannot see them move to a CSA system if they already have their own system. I do agree it was pleasant that we could rock up and register on the morning of the event but that was Advendurance events only. 

 

[dardo82]

3 minutes ago, Frosty said:

With lots of data, across a lot of events, they have critical mass.

In the old days of WinningTime and ChampionChip, it was a schlep to get race data from both to be able to seed riders.

I still believe CyclingSA should have a central database, where results are sent, by race organisers, so that seeding can be pulled from that one single database. All sanctioned events use that database, and then send it to the timing company to import into their system. It can be done, but the timing companies usually get the blame when seeding is wrong.

What the PPA do well, is keep you in a group for a period of time. You keep your race number for that period, and can only upgrade when they run the new "seeding". 

I had 4 numbers on my bike and person yesterday. Lets start with consolidating that first.

Aero bike R130k. 4 numbers flapping around, #priceless 

[The Ouzo]

5 minutes ago, Frosty said:

With lots of data, across a lot of events, they have critical mass.

In the old days of WinningTime and ChampionChip, it was a schlep to get race data from both to be able to seed riders.

I still believe CyclingSA should have a central database, where results are sent, by race organisers, so that seeding can be pulled from that one single database. All sanctioned events use that database, and then send it to the timing company to import into their system. It can be done, but the timing companies usually get the blame when seeding is wrong.

What the PPA do well, is keep you in a group for a period of time. You keep your race number for that period, and can only upgrade when they run the new "seeding". 

A central system would be awesome

[DanMan]

4 minutes ago, Frosty said:

With lots of data, across a lot of events, they have critical mass.

In the old days of WinningTime and ChampionChip, it was a schlep to get race data from both to be able to seed riders.

I still believe CyclingSA should have a central database, where results are sent, by race organisers, so that seeding can be pulled from that one single database. All sanctioned events use that database, and then send it to the timing company to import into their system. It can be done, but the timing companies usually get the blame when seeding is wrong.

What the PPA do well, is keep you in a group for a period of time. You keep your race number for that period, and can only upgrade when they run the new "seeding". 

Hi Frosty

What if the organisers/timing companies don't want to share/use the CyclingSA database? I feel timing companies make their money from selling the seeding data. 

[Skubarra]

5 minutes ago, Frosty said:

With lots of data, across a lot of events, they have critical mass.

In the old days of WinningTime and ChampionChip, it was a schlep to get race data from both to be able to seed riders.

I still believe CyclingSA should have a central database, where results are sent, by race organisers, so that seeding can be pulled from that one single database. All sanctioned events use that database, and then send it to the timing company to import into their system. It can be done, but the timing companies usually get the blame when seeding is wrong.

What the PPA do well, is keep you in a group for a period of time. You keep your race number for that period, and can only upgrade when they run the new "seeding". 

I agree that lots of data makes it easier, but I have seen companies with lots of data (looking at you SA Seeding) still having crappy systems with weird arbitrary seeding results. Racetec's calcs are transparent and their formula logical (even if you don't agree 100% with it)

Agree that in the long run a central database would be ideal.

[Frosty]

7 minutes ago, dardo82 said:

I had 4 numbers on my bike and person yesterday. Lets start with consolidating that first.

Aero bike R130k. 4 numbers flapping around, #priceless 

You can only consolidate to 3 numbers (UCI rules); two numbers on your shirt and the frame number.

[Frosty]

6 minutes ago, DanMan said:

Hi Frosty

What if the organisers/timing companies don't want to share/use the CyclingSA database? I feel timing companies make their money from selling the seeding data. 

Why do we need CyclingSA then? It's a rhetorical question

 

Seriously, it doesn't have to be CSA, but at least a central database. The problem with the timing companies, is that they won't share data between themselves. Why would they?

[Frosty]

4 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

I agree that lots of data makes it easier, but I have seen companies with lots of data (looking at you SA Seeding) still having crappy systems with weird arbitrary seeding results. Racetec's calcs are transparent and their formula logical (even if you don't agree 100% with it)

Agree that in the long run a central database would be ideal.

Racetec and Cycle Events were under the same umbrella as the Cycle Tour Trust, who also have that annual fun ride on their books. Things might have changed a bit since, as I haven't been in touch with them for 3 years. It was a case of having all eggs in one basket, and then charging to use their services - almost a monopoly, or perhaps an abuse of market share.

[DanMan]

1 minute ago, Frosty said:

Why do we need CyclingSA then? It's a rhetorical question

 

Seriously, it doesn't have to be CSA, but at least a central database. The problem with the timing companies, is that they won't share data between themselves. Why would they?

My point exactly!

As I see it, we are at the mercy of race organizers/timing companies unfortunately. I cannot see CSA ever taking charge to fix this.  

[edgarblount]

Is the 96.3 (aka 94.7) a seeded event for CTCT? Seeing as they not using the same timing company.

[Spinnekop]

15 minutes ago, DanMan said:

Hi Frosty

What if the organisers/timing companies don't want to share/use the CyclingSA database? I feel timing companies make their money from selling the seeding data. 

They should be forced [for the lack of a better word] to sell their "seeding data" to the ORGANISER.  The organiser pays them for the services which includes the RESULTS.
The results then gets sent to "The Central Cycling Database" by the ORGANISER.  Timing Co. can still make their pound of flesh.

But......looking at the dwindling numbers in road racing in SA..........
I doubt if we will see anything happen soon.  I think it is a dying sport in SA.
Very sad state of affairs........

Edited November 21, 2022 by Spinnekop

[Skubarra]

4 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Racetec and Cycle Events were under the same umbrella as the Cycle Tour Trust, who also have that annual fun ride on their books. Things might have changed a bit since, as I haven't been in touch with them for 3 years. It was a case of having all eggs in one basket, and then charging to use their services - almost a monopoly, or perhaps an abuse of market share.

Yes Racetec used to be owned by the Cycle Tour Trust, but as I have it they have been an independent company for a while now

[Skubarra]

3 minutes ago, edgarblount said:

Is the 96.3 (aka 94.7) a seeded event for CTCT? Seeing as they not using the same timing company.

Not anymore, that stopped when 94.7 dropped Racetec

[Spinnekop]

6 minutes ago, edgarblount said:

Is the 96.3 (aka 94.7) a seeded event for CTCT? Seeing as they not using the same timing company.

I think there are only a handful (2-3) races in Gauteng that still uses Racetech?
I race Rooiwal in the North of Pretoria once a year to keep up the seeding should I win the lotto and wish to go ride the August in March.

[The Ouzo]

3 minutes ago, Spinnekop said:

I think there are only a handful (2-3) races in Gauteng that still uses Racetech?
I race Rooiwal in the North of Pretoria once a year to keep up the seeding should I win the lotto and wish to go ride the August in March.

ridiculous state of affairs. 

As said a few posts up, an authority organisation should force the timing companies to share their data, There can be T&Cs involved to protect the timing company, but race organisers should have access to this data.

Probably explains the f-up in the seeding for this years 947

[Skubarra]

5 minutes ago, Spinnekop said:

I think there are only a handful (2-3) races in Gauteng that still uses Racetech?
I race Rooiwal in the North of Pretoria once a year to keep up the seeding should I win the lotto and wish to go ride the August in March.

Nowadays with less events timed on Racetec they are fairly open to upgrading your CTCT seeding if you can provide proof of a good result - have seen a few mates talk themselves into the sharp end of the field. Your "unofficial" 94.7 time will surely do the trick. 😉